The Steel evolved. Why can't we?

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 10 Apr 2010 8:58 am

Why do I hear so much criticism about Nashville Music and all the praise for traditional country?
You can plainly hear over the years of traditional country music how the Steel guitar has evolved into a very progressive sophisticated instrument.
Why would you not want the music to evolve past 3 chord sappy country songs?

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 10 Apr 2010 9:32 am

Bo -

There are many of us who, in our own quiet way, are attempting to evolve in our approach to what we play on the instrument. See Ray Montee's topic.

Respectfully,

Richard

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 10 Apr 2010 10:09 am

It's a good question, Bo. Sociologists have long believed that people imprint on music and other cultural indicators from a time of youthful impressionism and exuberance.

From many years reading here, my impression is that many of the forum stalwarts "came up" in a musical era when shuffles, Hank Sr., and trad. country were the norm, and steel guitar was king. I'm sure it's difficult to square those memories with the musical climate today. A visit to the ISGC always underscores that demographic.

I remember earlier in my career playing with bandleaders to whom Willie and Waylon were nasty intrusive outsiders, and "Proud Mary" a distasteful foray into "hard rock" they only played to please the crowd. A few years later it was "Free Bird" and "Copperhead Road".
Now it's probably Kid Rock and Big n Rich. Time marches on.

The sad thing is the level of vitriol and contempt for non-traditionalism apparently keeps a lot of younger/ less traditional players from participating here. Many of my students and music industry contacts have told me they feel uncomfortable with what they perceive as exclusionism.

bob Ousby · Post by **bob Ousby** » 10 Apr 2010 10:31 am

I think it's because of our Limited Motivity.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 10 Apr 2010 10:57 am

Most of the old country is by today's standards embarrassingly crude both musical and lyrical.
Traditional country music it seems was based on the premise of a poem that was too stupid to be spoken so it was sung.

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 10 Apr 2010 11:22 am

I really enjoy the Bobby Flores albums I have. Seems like they're really traditional country music. Then I go listen to the origionals. In many cases my first thought is exactly what you outlined in your last post. Technology certainly has a part in it. I also think a lot of music mainstream america is listening to is obviously not man made but the timing and pitch is perfect which in turn sets the bar much higher for all music.

David Beckner · Post by **David Beckner** » 10 Apr 2010 12:06 pm

Have you considered it is probably the lack of talent in the new country stars..I mean back then people like Big & Rich..Gretchen Wilson ..Derks Bentley among others couldnt shine the shoes of Faron Young..WEbb Pierce Ernest Tubb etc..

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 10 Apr 2010 12:13 pm

thats rich.....no pun intended

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 10 Apr 2010 12:22 pm

Bo:

People like what they like. It’s not subject to reason or much intellectual analysis. I’m one of those that don’t like current country music. But I have never equated the steel guitar with country music and I have liked many other styles of music since childhood.

You hear bitching about Nashville music on this site primarily because of the demographic. I’d guess that 20 years from today, you will find more acceptance of post-1970 Nashville because by then most people on this site will have been born after 1970. And you will have younger people who don’t like country at all, just as you do now.

I agree with you that the steel is a very progressive instrument.

Who says you can’t prefer traditional country when it comes to country, but still want the steel to be used beyond “three chord sappy country songs”?? Not me by a long shot.

If my choices were:

1: Never hear steel guitar again.

2: Hear steel guitar ONLY if it was recorded in Nashville after 1970.

I’d choose 1 in a heartbeat. I’m NOT going to listen to music that I don’t like in an overall sense in order to hear a steel guitar.

There are many thousands of non-country compositions with more than 3 chords. Put steel guitar in those songs and I will at least take a listen. If I like the performance overall, the steel can only add to it and I will continue to listen to that artist or style.

If all Nashville recordings by law had a steel guitar ride of at least 20 seconds in length, I still would not be listening. It's beyond repair and I walked away decades ago.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 10 Apr 2010 12:27 pm

Personally.I don't mind seeing and hearing things change if it's actually for the good..I wonder how many people nowadays would or will become Steel fans by what they are now hearing?.Most of the posters or members of this Forum are playing the instrument because of the past visibilty and amount played by the Legends of the past on their records, and those who still continue to set the standard..After attending many Steel shows I find the age of the attendees remains the same with a few exceptions..There are young players out there and at a few of the shows who are turning heads..But they are doing it with the standards and copying styles set by the past legends..So if one is happy playing bit parts drowned by drums and Keyboards without the rides and intros and outtrows,and if that is that is the future then so be it...I don't see any Franklins,Greenes or Emmons to name a few of the greats, developing down the road..

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 10 Apr 2010 1:24 pm

I think George & Alan had it right in the song "Murder on music row",but its not the artist who does most of it but the suits in the front office who don't know music &/or what it should be.All they see are sales,how many CD's can they sell with any artist under contract.I do however like some of the new stuff & some of the new artists but some don't even know the meaning of "Country Music".Todays "Country" sounds more like R&R.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 10 Apr 2010 1:42 pm

Jim Cohen, Basil Henriques and a few others are doing quite alot to bring out the potential of pedal steel. Now that I have begun to play pedals, I see all kinds of possibilities. Country music of any era isn't necessarily involved. What many people of all ages say about just about every genre of commercial music these days is not that the musicians aren't more technically proficient than the musicians of old but that the older music had more emotional content. I see alot of them at the festivals I go to. The musicians are, technically speaking, often second rate. But what is applauded at these festivals is, again, emotional content. It's a very important part of the equation.

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 10 Apr 2010 4:32 pm

Bingo Ed u get the prize on this one good on ya bro

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 10 Apr 2010 5:13 pm

Now who couldn't prefer music about, Divorce Apartment number nine Song against drugs whilst the singer is using, kinda hypocritical, separation, being drunk, in jail, Being lonesome, walking the floor and Cheat in Hearts as compared to I know whats inside stretch armstrong, third rock from the sun and I love my truck. Just some of my favorites that made me give up country

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 10 Apr 2010 5:24 pm

Go get any three Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen albums (live is best) from the early-mid seventies. You will hear Bobby Black completly kill old rock, early country, jazz, blues, Hawaiian, stoner country-rock and EVERYTHING in between!!!! I keep mentioning Bobby, and the Commander, but there seems to be a lack of enthusiasm around the Forum. I think Bobby Black is the prototype anti-style player, with a style. JMHO

John Clark · Post by **John Clark** » 10 Apr 2010 5:37 pm

A FRIEND OF MINE WHO WAS PLAYING STEEL PROFESSIONALLY SINCE THE 40'S TOLD ME RECENTLY THAT WHEN 4/4 BASS AND DRUMS STARTED BEING USED A LOT IN THE MID FIFTIES, A LOT OF PLAYERS DIDN'T LIKE THAT NEW SOUND. THEY TALKED ABOUT THE "NEW MUSIC" THE WAY SOME OF US TALK ABOUT THE "NEW MUSIC" TODAY. EVERYTHING GOES IN CYCLES, I GUESS. I DON'T LISTEN TO MUCH COMMERCIAL RADIO ANYMORE, JUST ENOUGH TO KEEP A FEEL FOR WHAT'S OUT THERE, BUT WHAT STRIKES ME WHEN I DO LISTEN IS THAT SO MANY OF THE SONGS ARE NOT "STAND ALONE" SONGS. IF A SINGER PERFORMED THE SONG WITH JUST AN ACOUSTIC GUITAR OR A PIANO, THE SONG WOULD MEAN NOTHING. IT'S A LOT OF PRODUCTION, WITH STUDIO PLAYERS WORKING LIKE GOVERNMENT MULES MAKING SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING SONG. I KNOW THOSE GUYS MAKE GOOD MONEY BUT I FEEL SORRY FOR THEM SOMETIMES HAVING TO PLAY THAT STUFF. MY 2 CENTS.

David Griffin · Post by **David Griffin** » 10 Apr 2010 5:40 pm

Rick: I agree with you about Bobby Black! Spin "Live @ the Armadillo World Headquarters"by Commander Cody @ the LPA. Bobby absolutely SMOKES.From big band to rockabilly to stone country & he nails 'em all. Besides,I always thought it was cool that he could smoke a cigarette while he played.

AND WHAT JOHN SAID!

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 10 Apr 2010 5:42 pm

I'll go with ya on that Rick ,Bobby is hot been payin attention to him since all of the aforementioned Commander stuff and a buncha other stuff when he was doin studio gigs in Califas with Linda Ronstadt , the Eagles and a buncha others. like u said great traditional but always on the cutting edge of the country-rock thing like Danny Dugmore, Rusty Young and Poco and Al Perkins ,Sneaky Pete,and others, you know who I'm talkin bout home boy

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 10 Apr 2010 5:47 pm

The steel guitar is thought of by the general public as being a country music instrument. Like it or not, agree or disagree. The band and I did a show today in Louisiana and there was a great bluegrass band there. As I was setting up, I was talking to one of the bluegrass pickers. In our conversaion, he said, 'It ain't a bluegrass band without a banjo, and it ain't a country band without a steel.' After the show, a listener from the crowd came up and we talked as I was packing up my steel. He complemented my playing and said 'Man I'll tell ya'. It just ain't country music without that steel!' I've heard statements like that many, many times. To me, what makes a country band a "country band" is the songs they play. Not the instruments they have. The steel guitar just sorta' confirms it.

I said all of that to say this... It's your steel. play whatever you want to play. If you want to "evolve" to head bangin' hard rock, plug 'er up and get after it. But the general public will STILL see the steel guitar as a country music instrument. And will for a long time to come. Like I've said before, country music is what put the steel guitar "on the map." Nothing will ever change that. When it comes to the music I like, it's George Strait, Haggard, Jones, Alan Jackson, Earnest Tubb, Randy Travis, and others. Country to the bone.

Mitch

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 10 Apr 2010 6:34 pm

The pedal Steel guitar is not a country instrument, it's a musical instrument!

The pedal Steel guitar is not a country instrument, it's a musical instrument!

The pedal Steel guitar is not a country instrument, it's a musical instrument!

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 10 Apr 2010 6:50 pm

I think what made what we consider classic country music was the writers. Songs that told the TRUTH about REAL life. Cheating songs[people do cheat] Love songs [some people really love their mates] Songs about the old home place,Songs about mothers and fathers, Songs about children,Animal songs [Old Shep] etc,Songs about murder,Songs about REAL life for REAL people. Today you have crap like Bo-donk-a -donk.[what ever the hell that is] Or ride a cowboy. Real writers like Harland Howard,Cindy Walker,Merle,Willie, Roger Miller,Bill Anderson,Marty Robbins,etc are a dying breed.And would like add No steel Not country.

YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 10 Apr 2010 6:52 pm

The female singer today seem pretty good. I think they have some soul.

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 10 Apr 2010 6:53 pm

Robert you are a sexiest pig from the stone ages

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 10 Apr 2010 7:00 pm

We need more songs about buildings and food...

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 10 Apr 2010 7:08 pm

Mike P.
I Fully agree with you. The steel guitar can handle ANY kind of music. But no matter what anyone thinks, you and I included, the general public (like I said in my post) still thinks of the steel guitar as a country music instrument.
Mitch

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The Steel evolved. Why can't we?

The Steel evolved. Why can't we?

Bo, I think you're pretty close to being right on

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