The Steel Guitar Forum

If you Sho Bud players were to have to pick one of these 3 models> The Pro II the Pro III and the Professional, which would you favor over the other 2.
for tone, and playabillity?
I know a lot would depend on pickups, wood, changer etc,Just generally speaking. need a little guidance here.
Or maybe I should ask, which of the 3 is your favorite model and why?

terry

Terry, I have both a Professional SD10 and a D10 ProIII Custom.
I prefer the playability of the ProIII above the Professional, which I think is a bit "clunky" because of the racks.

The tone of the ProIII is a bit more trebly than the Professional. For some reason the Professional has more "body" in the sound. Both guitars have a slight hum. Because I prefer the sound of the Professional, I replaced the pickup with an Alumitone. No more hum and the sound has improved a bit. I hear better string separation now.

Terry Sneed wrote:If you Sho Bud players were to have to pick one of these 3 models> The Pro II the Pro III and the Professional, which would you favor over the other 2.
for tone, and playabillity?
I know a lot would depend on pickups, wood, changer etc,Just generally speaking. need a little guidance here.
Or maybe I should ask, which of the 3 is your favorite model and why?

terry

I have yet to meet any bud I could keep in tune, outside of my old R&B Professional... IMHO Bud pedal action has always been good from old R&B guitars up to the Later 70's pot metal parts.. Action/playability is a wash..
Tone wise, the older the better.. My 70's ProIII was "ok" sounding and stayed in tune better than other Buds I have owned, but the earlier "Professional" Buds are worlds better in tone than later guitars in my opinion.

btw, if anyone disagrees with my very snotty and arrogant comment "yet to meet a Bud I could keep in tune"... so be it.
Just realize there is a a reason there are a half dozen guys out there making a living refitting Buds with better mechanisms..
That being said, Nothing sounds or plays as good as an old Sho Bud from the early 70's back a decade or two..
To answer the original question, I prefer the ProII, with two hole pullers... They sound like an "old" Bud, but the two hole pullers are an improvement over the earlier racks... bob

Tone - The Professional
Playability - Pro I/II/III Custom

Sho~Bud is a fine science as far as finding the all-around best era. Like Bob, all six of the 'buds I've owned have needed constant tuning tweaks. While I doubt anyone is actually making a living solely from restoring old 'Buds, there is a reason why this service exists. But for tone, the Professional knocks them out of the water. It has the ability to produce endorphins in your bloodstream when you play one. But if I as much as find another barrel in my house I will destroy it in a vice grip!

I have three Sho-Buds and I don't have any trouble keeping any of them in tune! That's including the '73 LDG, with two-hole pullers and barrels. I've had it for three years now, I play it a lot in my practice room, and I may have touched one of the barrels once since I set it up to my copedent right after getting it. I misplaced the Allen wrench for tuning the changes at the end plate about six months ago, still can't find it but it's OK because I haven't needed it. (And I am not tone-deaf!) The others are late-70's, an LDG and a Super Pro.

All three play well--the '73 has amazingly easy pedal action, but my only complaint with it is that the pedal travel is quite long and the pedals are wide, meaning having to flex the ankle really far to one side or the other to get all the way off pedal A or B while holding or pressing the other.

It's heresy around here, but I think the later guitars sound every bit as good as the '73. There, I've said it.

I'm with you on that, Brint. My SuperPro plays and sounds just as good, if not better than my '72 rack & barrel Bud...and it's a screamer, as well.

Having said that...I'll still take my '74 p/p anyday...

I guess it's the 'luck of the draw', and I've been lucky.

I've had more problems with Carter's and Sierra's 'stayin-in-tune' than my Sho-Buds.

The older round-front Bud's have 3/4" wood bodies and the newer ones have 1/2". If everything is working right, how can it go out of tune?

I've got a Cooped Bud, a Bud with a Desert Rose undercarriage, a Rack and Barrel, a stock Fingertip, and a stock '79 Pro II Custom. I guess I got a lucky hand because they're all great sounding and playing guitars....and they all stay in tune pretty dang good.

Think about this...

When Lloyd Green recorded with Charley Pride (at Panther Hall) he used a Fingertip. If you've ever heard that album, it sounds like he's playing an entire string section on his guitar... Granted it's Lloyd and he's the 'Master of the Buds', but some people around here will tell you a Fingertip isn't even worth restoring.

I read the same kinda crap about Selmer Mark VI saxophones on the sax forum. In the old days, organ salesmen used to say that Hammond B3's leak oil all over the floor so they could sell their customers a Lowrey organ.

Some things you gotta take with a pound of salt. All my Sho-Buds are good to me...
(PS...I'm knocking on wood - not formica... like my push/pull's)

I love all Buds,and all the various mechanisms..
However to most players the older ones sound better.. Fact of life..

If you have Buds that stay in tune better than a Carter or Sierra, you have some truly exceptional Buds...
Most Buds don't stay in tune like a Carter.. fact of life #2



The fact that 2 of your Buds have been retrofitted with modern undercarriages should tell you something..
Was it done for looks? Perhaps to save weight?
Pedal action??
I dunno.. the old Buds have great pedal action with the stock pull system..
Those guitars were rebuilt underneath at one point in their lives because someone got disgusted with them not staying in tune. Fact #3

No one loves Buds as much as I do, nothing sounds, looks, or plays like one.
The fact remains however, that many that are played out on a regular basis, by a pro or semi pro player, have had major work to keep them playing in tune,, Otherwise you would see a lot of old Buds on stage these days.. They made a LOT of them..
You don't see many out in the trenches these days.. You see modern steels for the most part.
If you do see a Bud, its been rebuilt with a modern undercarriage.
A Bud is much more desirable, easier to sell, and is usually priced substantially higher with non original parts installed... Can't say that about many vintage musical instruments.

Good points Bob. I bought them already retrofitted. They never told me why they had it done. I assume out of frustration.

I challenge your fact of life #2.

My D-10 Carter had a 10 cent drop on the 4th string when I stepped on pedals A & B. Acceptable to some... not me.

My first Sierra (U-12) would loosen up its pullrods when traveling. I even drove it to the factory for repair. when I got back home I realized I just wasted $300 on repairs.

I guess we all have our stories.

None of my Buds have been rebuilt--they all have their respective original mechanics. The late ones have had the knee lever brackets replaced with aluminum ones, but that doesn't change the design, or the tuning stability.

Appreciate all the info guys. I was thinkin of gettin another Pro II, since I love the one I just bought. Plays good, looks good, sounds awesome!
Since I hadn't played it over about 20 minutes at a time, (except at one singin I played about 45 minutes, and if it went out of tune, it wadn't noticable to my ears, but never put a tuner on it to check),so I can't say for sure that it stays exactly in tune. But then again, as purty as these Sho Buds are, and the awesome tone they have, I don't think I'd mind keeping my strobo-flip hooked to it, and retune every now and then. Thanks again for yall's thoughts and opinions.
One question, would a Sho Bud with aluminum necks, keep a tune better than a Bud with wood necks?

terry

I think I have to specify that my 'Buds weren't hopelessly untunable; it's just that many of them needed constant little tweaks here and there, mostly due to temperature change and such. They seemed less able to handle different environments than some of the modern guitars I've owned - which were pretty much "tune at home and leave alone" guitars that just stayed in tune forever. I don't even use the hex tuners on my Jackson Pro IV, whereas on the 'Buds I was tweaking the pulls a lot during shows. It wasn't a huge deal, but over the years I've become less and less patient with tuning issues on stage and will sacrifice tone for stability in this regard. With the Jackson, I finally don't have to sacrifice anything.

The best of the 'Buds for me tuning-wise were the later nylon tuner guitars.

I owned one Sho~Bud 2 hole puller with barrels that had tuning issues... until I replaced some bad barrels. After I replaced the barrels, the tuning problems disappeared. I think that the spring ends that stick out past the barrels sometimes cause problems.... for reasons that I can't figure out, so I just replace them. I have owned Sho~Buds from fingertip to early 80's Pro series... and never been seriously disappointed with any of them. I did like some better than others though, so for now the keepers are a 73 LDG and a 75 6139. I will probably keep these until I drop.

Sometimes you get a bad one.... sometimes a middle of the road one.... and sometimes they are great. It takes a while to know the difference.

I also have two Emmons Push Pull keepers out of about 12 that I have owned over the years. One of the keepers wouldn't stay in tune at all until I totally disassembled it cleaned all the parts and applied locktite to the tuning screws. Some folks would have declared that that guitar was untunable.... and it was until it was sorted out.

I own several modern guitars from different makers.... it took a while to get them to perform the way that I want as well. All of them were good out of the box, but I had to get them to do what I wanted.

Spend some time with the axe.... if you really like it, you can make it work.

I HAVE A SUPERPRO THAT I GOT FROM TOMMY WHITE IN THE LATE 90,S AND I LOVE IT!! I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEM WITH MINE. I REDONE IT MYSELF ABOUT 6 YEARS AGO AND I STILL LOVE IT.THE ONLY THING I WISHED IT HAD IS WOOD NECKS BUT STILL SOUND GREAT,WOULDN,T GET RID OF IT FOR NOTHIN.I,VE ALWAYS PLAYED SHOBUD AND ALWAYS WILL.

Terry Sneed wrote:If you Sho Bud players were to have to pick one of these 3 models> The Pro II the Pro III and the Professional, which would you favor over the other 2.
for tone, and playabillity?
I know a lot would depend on pickups, wood, changer etc,Just generally speaking. need a little guidance here.
Or maybe I should ask, which of the 3 is your favorite model and why?

terry

Hey Terry, glad you like that Bud. That guitar always stayed in tune and sounds as good as any guitar I've owned. Being a Pro-II with metal necks makes it a rare guitar. Hope it always pleases you, if not, just call me.---Henry