Going out of tune issue

David Kellogg · Post by **David Kellogg** » 27 Mar 2010 7:23 am

Here is what's happening on this Emmons, tune all open, then tune pedals, try to tune E lower knee lever ,then E open goes out of tune. I did change this from Day to Emmons setup. I never noticed this problem but I'm thinking it could have something to do with that.

John Swain · Post by **John Swain** » 27 Mar 2010 8:12 am

David, the first question is it a p/p or all pull Emmons?

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 27 Mar 2010 8:27 am

David,if the E comes back sharp after lowering I would look at the return spring?just a guess.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 27 Mar 2010 8:29 am

As stated in the other thread, this is a push/pull Emmons that was converted to all pull.

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 27 Mar 2010 8:54 am

For what it's worth, on the Sierra S-10 I have right now, a handful of changes were coming back out of tune. Taking the changer apart and cleaning the old lube out and very lightly relubing prior to re-assembly took care of all the issues.

Whilst I was chasing the problem, I finally pulled all the strings off. That's when I realized some of the fingers were rather stiff.

I hear a lot of suggestions to adjust the return springs. Before I did that, I would definitely ascertain that the changer fingers were moving quite freely. Otherwise, adding tension to the springs won't help much or might add other issues while masking the true culprit.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 27 Mar 2010 9:06 am

It seems to me that there is not enough travel in the lever that is lowering the string, so when the nylon tuner is adjusted to achieve the full lower (when the knee lever is activated), it is not backed off enough to clear the finger when the lever is released.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Mar 2010 9:22 am

To elaborate on what Richard wrote: There should be a small amount of slack in the pull rod when the lever is not engaged. If the nylon hex tuner is tight against the changer, it will cause the detuning symptom you describe.

The solution is usually to move the pull rod to a different slot in the bell crank.

David Kellogg · Post by **David Kellogg** » 27 Mar 2010 11:00 am

Looks like the problem was a rod catching on a dohicky. thanks to all.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 27 Mar 2010 12:42 pm

Them dang dohickey's will get you every time.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 27 Mar 2010 1:20 pm

Pedal steels are machines. They need to be properly set up and maintained by a competent mechanic. The difference is night and day. The problem is players that get underneath them and mess them up thinking they are smarter than the mechanic. I've seen this over and over. Then they sell the guitar in messed up condition to someone else. Maybe not in this case, but I've seen this.

Johnny Harris · Post by **Johnny Harris** » 27 Mar 2010 1:52 pm

Kevin Hatton wrote:Pedal steels are machines. They need to be properly set up and maintained by a competent mechanic. The difference is night and day. The problem is players that get underneath them and mess them up thinking they are smarter than the mechanic. I've seen this over and over. Then they sell the guitar in messed up condition to someone else. Maybe not in this case, but I've seen this.

That may be true in some instances Kevin, but how would you explain how all these competent mechnaic's got to be competent? I would guess most of them were, at one time, players getting underneath them and "messing them up".

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 28 Mar 2010 5:23 pm

richard burton wrote:It seems to me that there is not enough travel in the lever that is lowering the string, so when the nylon tuner is adjusted to achieve the full lower (when the knee lever is activated), it is not backed off enough to clear the finger when the lever is released.

I agree rich!

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 30 Mar 2010 5:41 pm

My feeling about getting underneath & messing things up: Hey we all have to learn somehow! My iron clad feeling for years has been: EVERY STEEL PLAYER NEEDS TO KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY MAINTAIN HIS GUITAR! If for no other reason than this: What happens when you're on the job & something underneath goes out of whack? You'll look pretty silly if you are unable to adjust it, not to mention, being possibly severely handicapped in your playing.

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Going out of tune issue

Going out of tune issue

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Getting underneath & messing things up!