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Topic: Options Galore In Building Your Own Steel |
Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 8:20 am |
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| The primary reason would of course be to eliminate the absurd labor costs added to the retail pricings of the instruments. Bargains are becoming more scarce as intermediate agents come between the producer of goods and the consumer. Hundreds of $$$ can be saved, by this educational adventure. |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 8:46 am
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A lot of us have day jobs, and besides I don't think anyone would want to play a steel that I built, and that goes double for me. 
_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 9:20 am
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Bill
I am at a loss as to how you can describe the labor costs to build a steel guitar as being absurd. If you take away taxes and a reasonable mark up from virtually all modern pedal steels, there is not much left. I can tell you that no manufacturer will ever become a multi-millionaire from steel guitar manufacturing. How they can even make a living is beyond me.
Just try making a guitar to the same standard for the same cost and you will struggle. In real terms, they were far more expensive 40 years ago than they are now.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E,
Last edited by Ken Byng on 29 Feb 2012 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 12:10 pm
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| Resourcefulness is the answer to taming teeth and claws of a runaway economy. Suppliers have diverted their energy to money saving preposterous acceptance of materials, including electronics, that don't come close to the quality workmanship built into instruments made some time ago. They've found countless ways to cut corners in spending. Sadly those savings are not reflected in the retail prices seen in today's markup figures. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 12:26 pm
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Bill - your original topic was "Options Galore In Building Your Own Steel"
Now it has morphed into a non specific and non steel guitar focused point of view. In plain English, are you stating that modern steel guitar manufacturers have cut corners by using inferior materials? Can you evidence that?
If anything, I see the exact opposite, where modern manufacturers use top grade materials. Certainly I see top quality woods, excellent machining of metal parts and consistent pickups. No pot metal, inferior wood veneers or badly pitted castings.
It has never been a better time to choose real quality instruments that would be difficult to replicate by hand building.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 1:37 pm
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I hope you're up to purchasing a knee mill and turning all those cranks on each and every single part.
I would suggest a CNC Knee Mill to save you all that crank turning.
I think maybe one of these pictured below and go to school to learn how to use it.
I'm thinking maybe at least another $10,000 for other equipment if you're really serious about building PSGs
But then again with your newly aquired education you would be smart enough to know you could earn a lot more money using your little machine and the other equipment for about anything other than PSG.
I'll be happy to set it up and tackle those G codes for around $75 an hour and expenses. Email me
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 2:53 pm
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| Actually, I'm looking for the pedal steel guitar that is incontrovertibly complimentary to a player's particular style of playing. One that would encourage a player to return to practice time after time. Sound alone could precipitate that special urge, not to mention improved adaptability in pedal arrangements. |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 3:21 pm
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Bo Legg,
Simplicity is the key to better things.. and I would guess that you already know that. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 5:48 pm
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When you look at the picture of the above CNC you become aware of the size, complexity and capabilities of the machine.
The realization hits you that in comparison the CNC is priced unbelievable close to a new Emmons PSG, but the PSG in mechanical terms is simple, primitive and has only one function that of creating recreational sound waves for a very select few people.
After thinking about that awhile I can’t remember the question or why I cared. |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 5:57 pm
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Actually, I'm looking for the pedal steel guitar that is incontrovertibly complimentary to a player's particular style of playing. One that would encourage a player to return to practice time after time. Sound alone could precipitate that special urge, not to mention improved adaptability in pedal arrangements.
Sounds like a P/P to me.  |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 6:09 pm
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Makes you think how out of whack things are compared price wise.
I can buy this for about the same price as a used Sho-Bud.
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 6:11 pm Re: Options Galore In Building Your Own Steel
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| Bill Hankey wrote: |
| The primary reason would of course be to eliminate the absurd labor costs added to the retail pricings of the instruments. |
Bill, absurd labor costs you say? I don't think that remark was very well researched. I know a steel builder of note who barely makes minimum wage building his steels. For others, like myself it is more a labor of love than making the "absurd labor costs" you proclaim.
I hope you will revise your your remark there, Bill, and write about things you hopefully are more knowledgeable about.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 6:22 pm
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This sums it up:
If only the steel guitar purchasers were about 10X as many as they are now, some Chinese folks would build you one for half the price.
I love small markets:
pedal steels
Real Vt maple syrup
Violins
turntables
boutique amps
etc... |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 8:09 pm
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I don't know any steel builders that make much more than a modest living. The cost of materials and amount of time that it takes to build one steel guitar is so much more than most people think. I have had a few people suggest that I build my own brand of pedal steel. I don't think so. Bill, have at it man....
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 11:18 pm Options Galore In Building Your Own Steel
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| Bo Legg wrote: |
| ............After thinking about that awhile I can’t remember the question or why I cared. |
Often the way with Mr Hankey's posts. In this particular pontification though, I can't allow him to make the disparaging remarks about the absurd labor costs and even worse, the allegation of builders cutting corners and using inferior materials without challenging him.
Mr Hankey - you have made some fairly serious and damaging comments about builders of pedal steel guitars. Please offer one single shred of evidence to substantiate your assertion of:- "They've found countless ways to cut corners in spending. Sadly those savings are not reflected in the retail prices seen in today's markup figures"
Tell us how 'they' have overcome the issue of ever increasing raw material prices.
"Suppliers have diverted their energy to money saving preposterous acceptance of materials, including electronics, that don't come close to the quality workmanship built into instruments made some time ago". That statement is just totally inaccurate and is a slur on the integrity of all current builders.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 12:51 am
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| Stuart Legg wrote: |
Makes you think how out of whack things are compared price wise.
I can buy this for about the same price as a used Sho-Bud.
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Not really out of whack:
Motorcycles are manufactured by corporations in economy of scale
Pedal Steel Guitar are handmade in a cottage industry
mass production usually leads to decreased product cost
Last edited by Tony Glassman on 1 Mar 2012 12:56 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 12:55 am
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| Bill, I don't think you have any first hand knowledge of what you speak. Pedal steels are a bargain. Try making one. |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 5:21 am
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Kevin,
I've been there, and done that! My fretless homemade steel is mute testimony of how easy it is to turn away from a conventional system of falling in line, like wild geese in flight, or ducks paddling around waterways; all in a neat row. Managing to bear the cost of a new pedal steel guitar without serious detriment isn't in my budget. I would have been able to buy the highest priced steel on the market, IF the future events existing today could have been foreseeable beforehand. Even so, taking the liberty to jeopardize a tight budget, caused by the rising costs of needful commodities, and ordering one of those six or seven thousand dollars steel guitars, is possible only if an increased income through lucrative bookings materialize. |
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Stephen Silver
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 5:28 am
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Ken, you don't actually expect Bill to respond to your comments and questions now do you?
SS
_________________
Life is mostly Attitude and Timing |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 5:43 am
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| Some time back I re-done a Carter Starter,by redone I mean I took all the BS that was underneath & replaced it with a new undercarriage & made it a 10 string pull semi-pro guitar,I kept track of the cost & just to do that(new bellcranks,pull rods,making a new finger stop,stops for the knee levers etc.) it cost me a shade over $1000.00 & that included labor from a machine shop to make parts.So my point is"building a steel guitar from the ground up & being able to make a modest profit is mostly a myth,it can't be done & get rich.I sympathize with those builders.Money invested in machines to make ,knee levers,bellcranks,rods,etc.is way more than anyone thinks. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 5:45 am
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Okay Bill how much would you charge to build a PSG for me.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 5:54 am
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Since I'm sure know at least as much about psychology as Mr. Hankey seems to know about musical instrument manufacturing, I'll offer this:
His comments have all the hallmarks of the (possibly drug-influenced) ramblings of an individual with failed intellectual and philosophical aspirations living at the fringe of the economic spectrum and dealing unsuccessfully with issues of insecurity and frustration stemming from his inability to parlay what he perceives to be considerable talents into a meaningful and satisfactory financial position.
_________________
John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 6:10 am
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| John Allison wrote: |
Since I'm sure know at least as much about psychology as Mr. Hankey seems to know about musical instrument manufacturing, I'll offer this:
His comments have all the hallmarks of the (possibly drug-influenced) ramblings of an individual with failed intellectual and philosophical aspirations living at the fringe of the economic spectrum and dealing unsuccessfully with issues of insecurity and frustration stemming from his inability to parlay what he perceives to be considerable talents into a meaningful and satisfactory financial
Laymans term:He's full of CACA!!!
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 6:18 am
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| Bill Hankey wrote: |
Simplicity is the key to better things.. and I would guess that you already know that. |
...that goes for communication as well. Like using clear, concise language. Instead of using words like "incontrovertibly"... 
Back on topic; building your own is very much a hit-and-miss affair. You don't know whether it will sound good or bad, or if it will even work properly. By the time you have your third prototype finished, you will have spent way more than the cost of a new pedal steel guitar.
Fender, among others, will gladly charge you well over $3,000-4,000 for a fancy custom shop Telecaster, a piece of plank which would take a luthier no more than 20-25 hours to build from scratch, using materials bought over the counter for maybe $500 tops.(For them, maybe 5 hours and $250.) Compared to that, a $3,000 loaded SD-10 pedal steel is a "steal". |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2012 7:22 am
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I have no plans for setting up shop, although the facilities and faculties to do so are in my grasp. I've been following these changes that have taken place for quite some time. I've passed up purchasing many quality instruments that could have been acquired for a fraction of what they are selling for at current market prices. I would use the term unfair prices to emphasize wheel and deal activities presently taking place. You may remember those with nicotine fits walking a mile for a camel cigarette. I would walk 20 miles or farther before writing an absurd figure for some so-called collectible. I use these examples to substantiate a rationale for resisting runaway price labelings.
Last edited by Bill Hankey on 1 Mar 2012 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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