The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 10:41 am**

Hi everyone!

I am an artist, I work extensively with hot glass. You can see some work here:

www.joshuasteindler.com/sculpture.html
www.joshuasteindler.com/pws.html

I feel qualified to make just about anything from glass, in either borosilicate or soda lime (heavier, probably more of a sustained tone). However, I don't work cheap.

It's too hard and expensive to do.

Basically, I want to gauge interest in whether you guys would want me to make bars/slides and what is the most I could ask for them and expect sales. I can do ANYTHING color wise. Probably all shapes are doable. There is a good amount of work in making such things. I noticed someone wanted a bar with a loop on the top for fingers, I could do that too, in any number of ways, I play with one myself. I also could copy any bar fairly close to perfectly. Send it to me I can make a mold out of rubber and go from there.

Anyways, feel free to educate me, let's see if you guys are interested.

I'm the kind of person who if someone is not happy I would either fix it or refund no questions, so hopefully that takes the unknown factor out a bit.

Also, if you have anything you need made I can probably do it. I would be more interested in creative things then repairs though, but I do know some good people, so feel free to shoot me a note.

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 11:26 am**

Hey Nicholai,

I worked for Chihuly breifly. Installation mainly. no glass working. MFA from SUNY albany in sculpture, i made kinetic stuff, lots of motors, solenoids and timers and such, no glass. I'm working at the U of washginton now in the Mech Engineering dept and we got a Prof. here "printing" 3D objects in glass. link below. he's just ony recently figured out how to print glass so I think only the ceramic printed stuff is on his website atthe moment. sorry for that aside, just thought you might be interested. feel free to contact him directly if you are and would like to know more, he's very into working with artists to utilize his new techniques and being a former scupltor myself i can see vast and exciting possible applications for those techinques.

So.....someone buying a new lap steel for the first time just asked me if they made glass tone bars and i didnt know the answer. Do people use glass tone bars?

what are the tonal differences betwen glass and other materials?

http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 11:38 am**

Thanks so much for the response. I am blown away by what that professor is doing. Genius. I will certainly try to come up with a good excuse to contact him.

I used to work for Paul Stankard, we are two lucky guys. That must have been fun, or heart pounding. Depends on how you look at it I suppose.

I've never seen a tone bar made from glass. Slides, sure. Not sure there is any market, I doubt it's been done because who would bother to go through the trouble?

Small scale glasswork has only recently become affordable and commonplace. I find that tone is greatly affected by two things. Mostly weight changes sustain it seems, to oversimplify it, and the way the surface bounces off the strings makes for a bit of the tonal quality. Less weight is a bit duller too. I find glass a bit "glossier" then metal, as it doesn't have the ring to it when the strings hit, with the sustain varying by weight. It has more sustain then ceramic but less then metal by size. Ceramic if glazed actually has a small layer of glass on the surface of it. I could put metal inserts into it, that's a bit more machining then optimal. I'm sure the materials internal resonance has something to do with it too, but I suspect glass will not dampen the tone as much as a ceramic would.

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 11:46 am**

Could you put a wooden ship inside one?

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 11:49 am**

A glass one would be easier almost! If you look at my paperweights (www.joshuasteindler.com/pws.html), those flowers are made of glass encased in solid glass.

I could probably do it. Got a wooden ship that small? You will lose tone being hollow, because hot glass burns wood (duh

). I could fill with clear epoxy of some sort easily though. Will be better then a slide that goes on your finger, but not as good as solid. The epoxies I'm thinking of (hxtal) are not cheap.

If there is interest I'd probably make a few testers up and ship them to people you guys respect for tone reviews.

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 11:59 am**

looks like glass tone bars DO exist. interesting

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 12:01 pm**

You sure those are tone bars?

Just kidding!

How much do they want for them? I can do better by far, but ya know, if they are blazingly cheap you guys might not want me to. I probably could do ones like that a bit less expensively. I was thinking cuts into them and stuff.

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 12:08 pm**

I cant tell you how many similar comments Ive gotten about my steel bar. the ladies are drawn to it and the guys seem to fear it.

those are $65, one edge is ground flat to produce a sitar sound.

maybe you could further customize em somehow to make yours more desireable than these? Being able to insert a personal momento into the bar would probably sell a few. shoot tho...if I knew the first thing about how to make a succesful or desireable product I wouldnt be working for the state...so dont listen to me, just thinking out loud (and typing it into the internet as usual)

.

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 1:52 pm**

I own a Boyett's Glass Bar, weighted, and I like it. It's a different sound and feel than a steel bar, and it's not right for everything, but for certain songs it's perfect. For a smoother, creamy sound on one song, I put a touch of overdrive, take off the picks, and use the glass bar...niiiiice.

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 2:32 pm**

A few bar comparisons. Unweighted do sound nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCKMz38v ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNN-eFeZmHs

I can easily match the $65 ones quality and price, maybe come a tad underneath them. If I don't have to grind one side flat I can drop the price a bit more.

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 3:57 pm**

I've been using glass tone bars from Diamond Bottle Necks in the UK. I love the tone(s), feel, weight and sustain. Just different from steel, chrome, composite, etc.

I recently received an "El Gordo" crystal tone bar (28mm); they sell for around $40 US shipped. Also have one of their "Bob Brozman signature" bars. Love their stuff and great folks to deal with.

I think glass/crystal bars are ideal for pedal steel and lap slide playing...but I think there might be some "resistance" to the idea among pickers. Still I encourage you to go for it...I think the key is a "heavy"/dense glass, being able to create beautiful and functional "nose/end" profiles while maintaing the perfect smooth cylinder of the body and putting some "mojo" in it (which glass is a perfect material for). Price point is pretty flexible for high quality bars.

BTW: I am blown away that you worked with Paul Stankard...he is a true MASTER that more folks should be aware of (Chihouly is no slouch either

).

Posted: **3 Mar 2010 4:44 pm**

Thank you! Working next to Paul was the best three years of my life. I would have stayed with him forever but I ended up with some health problems, I just can't keep up with his energy in the studio anymore on a daily basis. I'm 32, he's past retirement, that says something right there.

Thanks so much for your advice. I love all your guitars too, a very unique style you have. I will put you first on the list to try a prototype or two if you want!

I need a huge assortment of bars to compare, sigh, that part could be more then my profits! Anyone feel like loaning out a bar for a few days?

Here is some more recent work then is on my website. Statue is about 9 inches tall, and the sphere is 3 inches round, roughly. The face is on the interior under about a half inch of clear or so. Hard to tell.

Posted: **4 Mar 2010 9:21 pm**

Ian McWee at Diamond bottlenecks made me a beautiful tone bar a year or so ago WITH a finger ring.
http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com/DB08/index.asp?n=17
Wish I knew how to post up a pic, I'd show you.
I've never worked with such an open minded great guy as Ian. He's working on a more advanced version of my ring/tonebar.
Anyway, in my opinion, especially If you play an aluminum necked steel, and never tried a lead crystal tone bar, you're missing something. It takes the bright bite off, and makes the tone much more full.

Posted: **4 Mar 2010 9:59 pm**

Can you e-mail me the pic? fake.email.address@gmail.com (really)

I would love to see that thing. I doubt I go into making round bars regularly, seems there are some good people doing it already, but I might make a few up. I just want a ring one for me that is perfect!

How about the tone bars with top and side contours. I can probably do those from glass too....

Posted: **5 Mar 2010 5:39 pm**

Nicholai:

here's a glass slide/bar concept that has some possibilities for improvement for pedal steel. It's basically a glass "Stevens bar" with a "ridge" along the top side, a bullet nose and round/cylindrical bottom. This one I bought in CA...I think its a one-off. It is very fun to play with and produces good tone BUT would be even better if it was a bit heavier, and had a slightly larger circumference. Apologies for the poor pictures but you'll get the idea. It is about 9.5 cms long and about 2 cms "across."

Posted: **5 Mar 2010 6:01 pm**

It is about 9.5 cms long and about 2 cms "across

uh... can anyone translate that into normal measurments ?

i'm to damn old to learn the metric system

Posted: **5 Mar 2010 6:38 pm**

Calvin Walley wrote:It is about 9.5 cms long and about 2 cms "across

uh... can anyone translate that into normal measurments ?

i'm to damn old to learn the metric system

Hey Calvin:

9.5 cm= 3 3/4"

2 cm= 13/16"

or pretty close to that.

Posted: **5 Mar 2010 7:58 pm**

Diamond Bottlenecks:- $38.00 U.S.

Click HERE

Presenting our beautiful hand-crafted solid lead crystal tone bars......"El Minuté" & "El Gordo".

Our hand-blown lead crystal tone-bars are available in a choice of the custom signature 'Swirly' patterning, or our translucent pure crystal colours.

These lead crystal tone-bars offer the player superb liquid tones combined with beautiful, warm sustain on all lap-slide instruments - particularly unequalled in volume & tone on wood-bodied Weissenborn-style guitars & Hindustani-slide 'Chaturangui' instruments.

El Minuté is the thinner of our two pure lead crystal tone-bars, available in thickness's of 20mm (13/16") and 22mm (7/8"). We can accommodate any required bar length - just include your personal preference into the 'Specific Requirements' section of the 'Buy Now' order page.

Two different styles of 'nose profile' can be accommodated onto your crystal tone-bar by our craftsmen - the traditional 'bullet' nose profile; or the 'snub' nose profile preferred by many Pedal Steel players, again - just include your preference onto the 'Buy Now' order form.

£24.95
€28.00
$38.00 U.S.

click on image to enlarge
The Fred Kinbom El Gordo bar is the thickest & heaviest of our pure lead crystal tone-bar collection. Available in two mighty thickness's of 28mm (1.1/8") or 32mm (1.1/4"), our El Gordo bar can also be ordered to any preferred bar length as described on our El Minuté specs. above, and also with the same 'nose profiles' - the 'bullet' or 'snub' nose. Again, please include your preferences onto the 'Specific Requirements' section of the 'Buy Now' order form.

Each bar is hand-crafted here using the heaviest, densest pure lead crystal glass we can obtain, and is suitable for both Lap-Slide & Pedal-Steel duties.

All of our El Minuté and El Gordo tone-bars are individually packed & shipped with a monogrammed 'Mojo Bag' for constant protection.

We're honoured to have Fred Kinbom, one of Europe's most revered Lap-Slide guitarists endorsing our crystal tone-bars....Thanks Fred!!!

Posted: **5 Mar 2010 9:35 pm**

I can make Shubb/Stevens style bars much better then your example Steve. I'll think about it, that was what I was thinking when I made this thread. Making a simple cylinder is a bit, eh, easy. I did that stuff 12 years ago. Might not be worth my time with so many others out there, we shall see. If a few people are interested it will sure push them.

Basil! Good to see ya. Those were posted a few times already in here. Look nice. I can beat em, but probably won't bother unless someone wants something custom. Look like nice ones and I doubt I do this forever, this is for fun really. No reason to compete in such a small market. They did make this odd thing here, which I plan on doing a job of re-designing. There seems to be quite a few people who want something similar.

However, what I could do is possibly put something realistic down the middle of the bar, like flowers, people, faces etc. Diamond can't do that I'd bet quite a lot. What I can offer is, if you can dream it, I can make it. It won't be inexpensive though something like that. A paperweight I make with a detailed encasement goes from $300-$750, I could do something probably cheaper, but it's still going to be a bit. If I make contoured bars I imagine I will aim for market price of $40-$100 unless the colors are outrageously detailed. Look at my websites paperweights if you want to see the detail I can put into glass. Some people think the flowers are real, but they are sculpted by me in a torch, no tricks, kind of a miracle you can put something that delicate in a solid block of clear hot glass.

Posted: **5 Mar 2010 9:56 pm**

Well, the only odd thing there is the person who's finger thats attached to!!

That was my first attempt at designing a tone bar with a ring.....I felt if the ring was big enough, I could do slants with it. My next attempt will be different, but it does work, and sounds good. Ian made it exactly how I wanted. it does give me a sense of control, but I still have to angle my wrist some. "a work in progress..."

Posted: **5 Mar 2010 9:57 pm**

Sorry Ron! Did not mean to insult your bar! I should have given you credit too. Might be the best thing out there for all I know.

This is my favorite personal bar. I have to do some of the slanting with my arm, it needs improvement, but the velcro straps do work nicely and make it very comfortable for me.

I will post some bars I make as they happen. I'll probably warm up with some of the round ones, I need to test tone vs weight first, let me know if you want one when I post it. I'll do a sale thread later when/if I get serious about it.

Posted: **6 Mar 2010 8:39 am**

Ya know, I changed my mind. I had a dream last night, in that dream I actually made a few bucks off this.

I will make round tone bars with no cuts. This is an open market, not a nice guy game and those things are too easy to make to pass by!

My non custom round bars will cost $25-$35 for the simple ones (similar to what you see above made by other people). Most being below $30. Satisfaction guaranteed. Send it back no questions asked, or I can make another one.

The prototypes you might be able to get as I work on this may be cheaper.

Ok, can we stop posting advertisements for other people now? I'm in business as of today!

Posted: **9 Mar 2010 2:12 pm**

Got a few prototypes made. The ones I've tried in lead crystal haven't had "it" yet for me, but the two out of Pyrex seem to have the magic! I'm ordering more crystal. Someone knowledgeable told me you guys used to use Pyrex in the 70's to sound like Duane Allman.

These are the first two that passed my playing test. They have to have that certain something. I tossed a few playable ones just because they didn't feel special at all to me. I'll reheat them and try again. The bars have been checked in life and have a ruler flat edge. The camera lens is making them look a bit wonky.

Roughly 1 inch round (78 grams) and 1.5 inches round (101 grams) by four inches. VERY comfortable to play. I prefer the big one strangely. I'm tempted to post them to the speed bar thread but I really am in prototype stage.

I have schott optical glass too. Finest glass in the world. haven't tried it yet.

Posted: **9 Mar 2010 3:15 pm**

Does having both ends round make it harder to lift the bar or slant it?

Posted: **9 Mar 2010 3:17 pm**

I like it better, more comfortable in my palm, but that's a personal preference. I can do them any way really.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Custom glass slides... any interest?

Custom glass slides... any interest?