The Steel Guitar Forum

After a longer intermezzo on electric slide guitar I have returned to purely acoustic music, without any electric amplification. Years ago I had an early Weissenborn Style 1, then a Koa Island. Both sounded great but lacked volume (the Weissenborn because of its fragile construction) when played together with guitar, bass & percussion. Now there are so many copies around it's nearly impossible to compare. What are your favorites when volume and a biting tone is asked?
By the way: has anyone done experiments with a Hawaiian guitar and a zither table? Zither players use them to amplify their instrument, so it may work also for Hawaiian guitars which are actually fretless zithers.

welcome to the world of acoustic music
imo - these werent designed for volume - thus many players switched over to national tricones in the late 20's. if you are looking for volume and biting tone, (traits i would never associate with ANY weissenborn) - i'd go national tricone.
our dobro player has a Lazy River which sounds great but he is constantly complaining that it isnt loud enough - plus its tuned down to D which makes it even harder to hear in a loud setting
that said - i think that players need to realize acoustic is not electric and enjoy the rich experience for its own benefits. in a trio setting, there should be no reason to play so loud that one instrument is drowned out - a symphony has to do the same thing - a horn section will overpower everything else if not directed properly. this is my beef with banjo players - by design, the instrument is louder than the rest of the mix, and they all seem to expect YOU to play at THEIR chosen volume level which isnt possible.

For me, getting a tricone is not the answer. Getting a pickup for those sessions were you need it, or properly miking seem better options. You want to maintain that weissenborn sound, which you won't get on a tricone.

that said, my Clinesmith is pretty loud and I understand Bear Creek's are loud as well.

I'd agree. The one Lazy River weissenborn I've played is relatively loud, but not anywhere near the volume of a resophonic guitar or tricone. If you want a loud weissenborn, get a pickup.
It seems like most people who play weissenborn in a group do so in a small group (bass and drums) or just use it for solo numbers.

one issue is perception of volume - if you play 5-6 tunes on a reso instrument then switch over to the weissenborn for 2-3 you are going to try and push it past its designed purpose - ie, why you chose that tone color over the reso.
when we're all rehearsing in the living room, the Lazy River is just killer - but you cant reproduce that on stage - btw, we all play around 1 mic (AT4033)

My spruce/walnut Lazy River has approx the same volume as a dreadnought guitar, and I had no problems using it in my last acoustic band (weiss, guitar, double bass, vocals). The moment you add drums/percussion it's a totally different ballgame, and some sort of amplification is often needed.

Fortunately there's plenty of good alternatives for amplifying it these days, the pickup systems only keep getting better and there's several available that preserve the acoustic tone amazingly well.
Live I prefer using a combination of internal pickup and external mic, using the pickup mainly for monitors (less feedback) and blending them perhaps 70/30 in favor of the mic through the PA.

Thanks for your comments! At the moment we dont't want to use pickups, mics etc. We also use resonator guitars (Tricone, Triolian), they are loud, no question, but only by concentrating their acoustic power on the midrange - sometimes a great effect, but the resonator sound can as well ruin a tune. - "Percussion" means darabuka or frame drum which is not too loud. - I guess a wooden hollow neck instrument that is constructed the right way (bracing, woods etc.)can be used as a solo instrument in a string band. Mahagoni topped instruments seem to sound to sweet (at least the trebles)for that purpose, koa or spruce tops may have more "bite". A slightly arched top can also produce a little bit more volume, but not all kind of woods can be stressed that way. I guess some of the better "copies" use the Weissenborn shape, but differ in construction details, which might help increase volume and rigidity.

Are you using any spider bridge type resonator guitars (Dobro® or similar instruments) or are you just using the tricone and biscuit bridge guitars (National and similar instruments)? There's a big difference in tone to me between the Triolian and the resonator guitars such as the Dobro®.

The combination of the wood body and spider bridge design may allow the Dobro®-style guitars to blend better with other instruments. Your tricone or Triolian may sound harsh when mixed with other instruments (compared to the Dobro® style guitars).

Perhaps that will give you the sound you seek.

Brad, you are right. The spider-type guitars blend better with other instruments whereas the Nationals tend to dominate the scene. We have tried Dobros too, but their sound does not fit the Balkan melodies or oriental-influenced stuff we are playing. We found the Weissenborn-style instruments absolutely perfect - but they lack a tiny little bit of volume.

I know that you said you don't like pickups, but check out Xavier Rudd if you haven't already. Get's a great acoustic sound from his weissenborn, and certainly no lack of volume

Mike Dotson of Maricopa guitars also makes a hybrid he calls the Weissenator...its a Wessenborn with tri cone inside...very cool instrument.

I have a John Pearce Weissenborn and have played it on live opry stages through a condensor mike. In order to keep out any feedback, I turned off the monitor on my mike and also turned down the monitor closest to me. The rest of he band has to play VERY quietly. Got a great sound this way for a stage show, but forget it if you are playing loud for a dance.

The reason I got my Weissenborn was so I could play it around the house, never really intended to take it out on a job.

Also, I tune mine down to an F (two frets down from G tuning) so as to not overstress the box.

Thanx,
Jim

The loudest Weissenborn I ever heard was the one I stepped on. Even the banjo player heard the crack

Another option for a louder non-resonator sound is to use a standard acoustic guitar set up for lap style playing, particularly one with a large/deep body. I used to have a Seagull dreadnought set up this way and it was considerably louder than any Weissenborn-type instrument I have tried. There are also squareneck guitars with standard guitar body shapes out there that might be similarly loud, including the nicer old Oahu acoustics and the new Beard and Gold Tone models.

Daniel Brauchli uses carbon fiber technology in his bracing which gives his hollownecks extra volume. His floating bridge guitars with cedar top are bright and quite loud.