GFI pickup help

George Newton · From: New York, USA

I bought a new GFI Ultra D-10 a few months ago and am very happy with the way it plays. However, it has much thinner, harsher sound than I am used to, and although I have given myself some time to become accustomed to it, it just ain't happening.

My other guitar is an early '70's Emmons. I had Lashley's pickup winding guru make up a pair of double wound pickups for it a coupleyears ago and the sound is perfect for my style and taste. They have a much fatter, warmer sound and the lower strings have more balls than the GFI.

My questions are: Is it the guitar or the pickups that are generating the tone? Does anyone recognize the tone I am seeking and have a specific pickup recommendation?

Thanks.

Jason Hull · Posted 7 Feb 2010 10:29 am

Ben Elder · From: La Crescenta, California, USA

From Bobbe Seymour's tips email 1/25/10:

"Hello fellow players,

I still can’t believe things that I see young new players discussing on the steel guitar forum. Everybody still seems to be under the impression that you can completely change the tone of the guitar by changing the brand of pickups.

I see people on there with a brand of guitar that is famous for not sounding good and they wonder why changing the pickups didn’t make it sound like an Emmons pp. When people talk about Emmons pp tone, they don’t talk about the timbre of each note, but instead how much treble it does or does not have.

The amount of treble has nothing to do with the timbre of the note. It seems like everyone confuses timbre with treble or bass when treble or bass has more to do with an amplifier setting than the natural inherit timbre of the steel.

Some people that can’t appreciate the quality of a steel guitar sound, think they can fix it with a pickup change, amplifier setting or a different brand of strings or something equally silly.

The deal is, you really have to start with the guitar to get a good sound. Amplifiers are nice, a players execution is nice as are several little things and you can actually get a decent tone with an average sounding guitar, however if you want a big, fat, luscious great timbre sounding guitar, start with a good guitar and then get good quality products between the guitar and the amplifier.

And if you don’t think that’s it, you’ll never have as good a tone as those that do."

- - -

(I have a GFI Ultra SD-10 and thin and harsh are way down the list of adjectives I'd use to describe its sound. Granted, it's not an old ZB or Sho-Bud (got two each of those), but look at the difference in construction...and weight and mechanical ease.)
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"Gopher, Everett?"

George Newton · From: New York, USA

Ben: I appreciate your forwarding Bobbe Seymour's note. However, anyone who has had any experience with alternative pickups on the same guitar realizes that changing pickups can substantially impact the guitar's tone. Both the physics of the guitar and the electronics contribute. I was asking if anyone had already experimented with alternative pickups on a GFI and might help me to shorten my search.

Also, I hope that Bobbe is not referring to GFI's as "being famous for not sounding good" as this would certainly be inconsistent with our conversation when he sold it to me...

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

The only steel pup I have heard that sounds thin and harsh was the Barcus Berry on an EMCI---changing to E-66 did wonders for that guitar, really almost a different guitar. Most pickup changes I have done have had a far less drastic affect.
I think the key comment in the quote from BS is "completely change the sound" so you can't make a 71 MSA sound like a push pull---just like you can't make a strat sound like a Les Paul or a Tele sound like an L5 but you can add humbuckers to each of those guitars and get them closer to those sounds.
I have an S-10 GFI that came with a GFI-II pickup which checks out at 18.2 on the ohmeter, I thought it sounded OK but changed it to a Trutone that checked out at 17.8 and I now like the sound better, but it was only a subtle difference most likely from the humbucker to single coil switch.
My guess is you need some hotter pickups check yours and see where they come out on the ohmeter.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I bought an older GFI at a Guitar Center 1/2 price inventory reduction sale. $600. It had the Barcus Berry pickups in it. It had no sound at all. I heard there was some sort of fault in their original construction. Had to get the new pups from GFI. They sounded okay. Traded that guitar for my Fingertip. Now,,, talk about sound! But it stays at home. I'd have to hire a geek to carry it around for me!

George Newton · From: New York, USA

Thanks for the ideas. I have been searching older posts and I see that a a lot of folks have gone to an Alumitone bass bar and like it. I think I'll try one on the E neck. Just have to be sure that I am getting the right size - looks like 4 inch is the one. Actually, the C neck sounds pretty good with the stock pup probably due to the stronger ouput of the larger strings.

I have owned Sho Buds, Emmons', MSA's, the GFI and started on a beautiful sunburst Fender that I bought new in 1970 (wish I still had it just to look at it!). They all have unique sounds, but pups can make a subtle difference.

Mike Sigler · From: Give Em A Try !

i have tryed all the GFI pickups... and the GFI -3 is the best by far... and these guitars have tone to the bone...and they for sure kick butt..

David Higginbotham · From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA

Which stock pickup is installed? GFI I,II,III? The I's sound very thin and bright. The II's are much better with more bass. The III's I compare to the I's only with a bit more clarity.

This is my opinion only as I've had 4 GFI's and tried different pickups. The one I settled on is the 10-1's. I have a set of GFI II pickups that I don't need if you haven't tried them.
Dave
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'92 GFI D-10 8&6, ‘67 Emmons Bolt-On D-10 8&7, Walker preamp, Sarno Tonic preamp, Tubefex, Stewart power amps, Carvin XT tube amp, Webb Cabinets, all vintage JBL’s!

Tor Arve Baroy · From: Norway

hi Mike!

I have a GFI expo with the GFI 2 pickup installed...
what would I gain by installing a GFI 3...?

How would yould you descibe the sound..? Smile

John Swindle · From: Oregon, USA

I don't have an answer for you, George, but I'm glad you raised the question. I have a used Mullen D10 that I bought a few months ago. The previous owner had changed both pickups - a Lawrence 705 (I think) on the E9 neck and a George-L on the C6. I like the way it sounds, but I can't help but wonder what it would be like with the original Mullen pickups. Anyone want to share an opinion?

By the way, I don't think Bobbe Seymour was talking about GFI in that newsletter. I've seen other stuff he's written where he had nothing but good things to say about GFIs.

George Newton · From: New York, USA

Dave:

The guitar came with GFI II pups. Have not yet tried anything else. The responses I have received have made it apparent that pup sound is a matter of personal preferrence, not right or wrong. I'm glad to hear that - I would hate to see everyone heading toward a common, homogenized sound. However, there are few guys I wouldn't mind sounding just like for a day or two.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

I have a GFI Ultra D10 that had GFI II's on it.
I put a Wallace true tone on my e9 and an old Emmons single coil on my c6 neck. I use nickel strings on my e9 neck as well. Now my sound is much warmer and balanced, with much much fattened tone than the stock pickups allowed.

I think any guitar will have a particular tone, and changing pickups will simply bring out or mask parts of that tone. Obviously you cant get sho-bud tone from a gfi, but you can milk the available tone by manipulating pickups and strings. For me, adding the single coils brightened my bass and tamed the shrillness of the highs. Using the Paul Franklin nickel Jaq strings thickened the sound of the e9 a lot. On C6 Daddario bright steel strings worked best for mine.

My GFI has and always had very good sustain, stays in tune amazingly well, has a nice bell like tone, and is durable. Now with the pickups I have tweaked it via pickup alteration and string type to really have control over my sound.

It seems that many GFI owners have installed the Lace Alumitone pickup with good success. I used what I had, but would probably by an alumitone for my e9 neck if I was buying.

Be advised with the single coils I added I had to shave the pickup and re-drill mount holes to install, and from what I read the alumitone fits right off.
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GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

George, I have the GFI-II's on a new Ultra D10. I don't care for what they do to the natural, unamplified timbre of the guitar, which IMO is outstanding. To my ears the GFI-II's have lots of treble and thin bass.

I've EQ'ed the harshness out and have a pretty good result, but I'd like to switch pickups in the future to bring out the guitar's inherent tone.

I've had good luck on another guitar with 10-1's; I may try those or the Alumitones.

George Newton · From: New York, USA

Steve: Your description of the tone you were looking for and your success in achieving it gives me confidence. I just ordered an Alumitone from Carter. Other posts indicate that an adapter plate is needed for a GFI and Carter apparently includes this with the pup, so I went with them. Thanks.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Of all the things that effect a guitar's tone pickups are one of the least. Guitar construction and design is number one.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Ryan Barwin · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

The changer material (the bridge part of the changer, not the fingers) is also very significant to a steel guitar's sound. The GFI Ultra changer is stainless steel, and the Emmons changer is aluminum, as are Sho-Bud, Franklin, Mullen, Carter, Excel, Williams, Fessenden, and most other steel guitars. This contributes a lot to the difference in tone that you're describing.
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