Is the C6 tuning a little lean with minor chords?

Joerg Schubert · From: Hagen, Germany

Hi,
I try to learn more about the C6 tuning. Part of my approach is to force myself to play songs on the C6 neck that I would normal play on the E9 neck.

While doing this I got the impression that the C6 is very rich if it comes to major chords and especially dominat chords. I'm able find those chords with all kind of options all over the fretboard. For minor chords I'm not able to find that varity of differnet positions. I'm aware of the fact that the bare tuning itself contains the minor chord (C6 = Am7) but I find it complicated to identify minors beyond that. I'm missing that fat minors that the E9 tuning is giving me with all its chord inversions on the A-, BC-pedal and E-lever all over the fretboard.

Here are some questions on how-to find more minors on C6:
- Is it that I have to learn more about chord substitutions and see for instance the minor within the dominant chord? Like bVII9 = IVm6.
- Is it that my standard copedent needs to be tweaked?
- Am I just missing somthing important about C6 standard copedant?

I'm already very curious about the answers I hopefully will receive.

Thanks a lot
Joerg

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

i find C6 richer than E9 for minor chords Joerg
as you know i'm sure the C6 tuning is an A minor
you get an extension of it at fret 5 w: P7
or at fret 3 w: P5 & lever that raises string 3 a half tone
at fret 0 w: P6 you get a Cminor chord
if you have a B to Ab lever w: P6 at fret 7 you get a Cminor chord
if you have a A to Bb lever w: P6, at fret 0 you have a Cminor chord as well
if you have a E to Eb lever w; the A to Bb lever at fret 0 you have a Cm7

Franklin · Posted 8 Feb 2010 10:47 am

The notes of a C6th chord are also the same notes as an A minor 7th. If the bass plays an A note while you are playing a C6th chord its a minor seventh...If the bass plays a C under the same chord its a major chord......The notes we play remain the same. So the tuning can also be viewed as an A minor based tuning with major possibilities. Wink

PF

Ryan Barwin · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

If you don't have it already, the A to Bb lever is essential on C6. It gives you a C7 chord. P6 gives you a Cm6 (or F7), and the combination gives you a Cm7 (or m11 actually). So any major position can become dominant or minor.

II-V-I patterns are also really easy with that lever.
For example, if the progression is in C:
If you want a dominant II chord (e.g. D7), you use the lever at the second fret. If you want a minor II chord, then you hit P6 as well. The V chord (G7) is just P6 at the same fret, (which is a nice sounding change when you just have to release the lever), and then the 1 chord (C6) is open, or you could use the C to B lower to make it a Cmaj7. I-VI-II-V would be the same chords, except you'd use the open Am7 as the VI chord.
Anyway, that lever, with P6 gives some nice minor chord voicings.
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

Joerg, without getting into the usage of pedals, my answer to your question about chord substitutions is "yes" if you want to add more colors and extensions. For instance, playing an Em triad with an A bass note will give you an Amin9 (upper extensions, no 3rd). If you begin to look at chords as stacked triads, you will find the possibilities open up a lot more. A Gmaj7 chord over an A bass note will yield upper voices 7, 9, 11 and 13--a Bm triad will give you 9, 11 and 13.

Of course, if you are looking for more straight up minor chords, I will recommend Neil Flanz's C6 Pedal Steel Chord Dictionary sold by Steel Guitars of Canada. I hope he doesn't mind me posting this:

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basilh · From: United Kingdom

What would I know ?
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Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

I think the C6 tuning is rife (plentiful) with minor chords and their simplest extensions. Not a complete list, but just a few at the zero fret position that come to mind without a guitar in front of me (D note on top):

No pedals - Am (8, 7, 6, 4, 3, 2) Am7 (8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2)
Pedal 4 - Em7 (8, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1)
Pedal 5 - Am6 (9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2)
Pedal 6 - Cm (7, 6, 5, 3), Cm6 (8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3), Cm9 (8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 1)
Pedal 7 - Em (6, 5, 4), Em7 (6, 5, 4, 3, 2)
Pedal 6 and 7 - Bm (4, 3, 2), CmMaj7 (7, 6, 5, 4), CmMaj9 (7, 6, 5, 4, 3)
C-B lever - Em (6, 5, 3, 2), Em7 (6, 5, 3, 2, 1)
Pedal 5 and lever - Bm7 (8, 5, 4, 3, 1)

I could probably come up with more if I had a guitar in front of me, but you get the picture.

With the addition of the common 4-lever setup, and considering m7b5 and diminished chord possibilities, there are variations of minor chords all over the place on C6.
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Joerg Schubert · From: Hagen, Germany

Hi,
thanks to everybody who replied to my provocative question.

The C6 copedent I currently use has P4-P8 standard and the string 3 C-B lever as well as the string 4/8 A-Bb lever. I have a guitar on the way that will give me additionally a string 3/7 C-C# lever as well as the string 4/8 A-Ab lever. So I will have most of the changes that Crowbear, Ryan and Herb mentioned.
Only thing left, I have to sort out things and generate easy to follow rules that I'm able to find the minors instantly when I hear them where ever I may be on the C6 neck in the current play situation.

Paul, this is exactly what is happening if I play the E9 neck. I know the interconnection of the A, B/C, E levers as well the rules how to use A/F and A/B to play over minors. It's like you taught it in your excellent course "Improvising Over Minor Chords". I need to have a similar concept for the C6 neck. I will try to figure that out with all the input I've got from you guys.

Also I have to spent more time on chord substitution knowledge. Probably it is even more important for playing the C6 with or w/o pedals than it is for the E9 tuning.

Mike, do you have any literature or links that can help to get me closer to look at chords as stacked triads? I've your DvD on the way, so maybe I will find that information just there.

Thanks
Joerg

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

have a look see here Joerg
http://dogriverpub.com/trap/chords.pdf
lever F lowers string 3 a half tone
lever G raises string 4 a half tone

an easy way to know where a minor chord is :

move up to the minor third position from the major chord : 3 frets up

move down to the Dom7th position from the major chord: 2 frets down

Joerg Schubert · From: Hagen, Germany

Hi Crowbear,
that's a good link, thanks.

The two rules you mentioned I also use when playing the C6 steel w/o pedals. Third rule I use:

The relative minor(7) to a major(6) chord is on the same fret (applies to C6 no pedals).

This is of course derived from the "3 frets up" rule.

Another good point is the name of the C6 levers. Is this kind of standard to call them F and G levers and are there more standard names for C6 levers?

Apropos G lever, some raise only string 4 A-Bb other do raise also string 8 with the same lever. Are there any particular pros and cons for the one or the other option?

Thanks
Joerg

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

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