The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi Ecverybody,


What is so special sounding about the Emmons Push Pull? In read about that tone all the time.

I have a Fessenden SD 10 4+5 and I think it sounds good, I even liked the sound of my old Maverick.

Doesn't the amp and your touch have a lot to do with it?

Also, whats the sound difference between a wooden neck Shobud for instance vs an alum neck steel.

I think I liked the feel of the Maverick better.

I don't get to compair steels in person just read the fourm, can you guy help. I'm in New Jersey

P.S. does anybody think the SD pad isn't worth the extra size and weight?

THANKS A LOT,

Bill Carroll










THANKS

Bill Carroll

I kind of like the Old Sho~Bud tone with lightly wound pickups and newere stainless strings..

I can always get a passable "Emmons Push/Pull Tone" by smearing a small amount of peanut butter on the strings.

Reece?



EJL

If you have the "touch" you can make virtually any steel and amp combo sound good. If you don't have the "touch" you can spend thousands of dollars on gear chasing after, and never achieving good tone.

Having said that, the feature that distinguishes the Emmons Push-Pull from every other steel (except the ProMat which is apparently a high quality Push-Pull knock-off) is the push-pull changer. As others have explained; the PP changer fingers are always touching something solid (the body or the metal tuning screws) so the energy of the string does not get lost as quickly as happens with all-pull changers with the nylon tuning screws.

I find the PP has a crisp, well defined attack when the string is plucked, followed by excellent sustain. By analogy, my PP has the bite of, and sounds sort-of like a Telecaster, whereas my old all-pull changer D-10 (Rus-ler) with nylon tuning screws has a duller attack, sort of like a Les Paul.

I really like my PP but it has its limits, and I can understand why most people prefer the newer steels. If I owned a quality PSG, such as Fessenden, I would not obsess about getting an Emmons PP.

A good guitar player can sound really good on either a Tele or a Les Paul. Same goes for steel players.

Jerry Garcia.

I've never heard any steel guitar tone/sound that I and someone else didn't like.

I personally like the tone I am getting. I have been on stage with many other type of guitars but I still like my tone better. It was not always that way and I don't think the guitar has that much to do with it. I do think the amp has a lot to do with it.
It is a good thing I have a good tone because I am very lacking in other areas. I would just bet that not two out of ten steel players would like my tone but that is their problem.

i think a double body on a single neck is alot of unnecessary bulk and weight. the only good thing i can see about giving up a double neck for a single neck is a smaller lighter load to carry.

I'm in the camp of less weight. No sense carrying around what you don't need or use. There are those who would argue that a double body has better tone...I think your touch and technique has a lot more influence on that than the size of the body. One thing that never seems to be mentioned is hand position. Any serious piano teacher will stress better hand position=better freedom, better technique. Case in point for a single body. Another thing no one seems to think of is the knee levers...much easier to work with on a single body. Better feel=better technique=better tone. Just my 2 cents worth. MD

One other thing by the way...there is an inherent tone in a push-pull, it's true, but someone with bad technique can make one sound pretty bad! MD

when I got my first push pull guitar, I hated the tone..that was until I set it up on stage down town Nashville and start playing..after 5 minutes of playing and after I manage to get my jaw of the floor I realized what was all the fas about the push pull ...



Db

Depending on age, there are some ergonomic advantages to a P/P that haven't been mentioned.

The older P/P guitars had the wide foot pedals. That lets someone like me with bigger feet have a little more room to manuver. I find this particularly useful for C6th playing when you often have more than one pedal involved and move a lot of tones with seperate pedals.

There is also the fact that a P/P fights back a little. Modern steels play like butter and take practically no effort at all to depress the pedals. In contrast a P/P does take some effort to fully engage a pedal or lever. While the extra tension can play havoc with those lightening fast runs, (at least for me), it also allows you to add extra expression well controlled over a longer pull. You often hear much more transition as a pedal is pressed on a P/P and getting a half pedal tone, (i.e. B to C) is a relatively easy thing to do. In contrast, my style changes with an A/P where the fast action and precise splits sounds almost like flipping a switch to my ear and yields a more sterile phrasing.

That brings up some quirks to give you some different options on a P/P. Modern All Pulls are lower dominate, meaning if you both raise and lower a string at the same time, the lower will effect the raised string giving you a split, (most popular is raising B - C# on a pedal and lower it back to C with LKV.) A P/P is raise dominate meaning if you try to lower a string that you have raised, it doesn't effect it at all. For example, now releasing the B pedal on a double lowered 6th string gives you a full 4 half-tone drop and you don't have to worry about coordinating both a lever and a pedal at the same time.

None of this make a P/P "better" than an A/P, just different. Now of course you do also get that killer tone ...

Michael Dulin wrote:I'm in the camp of less weight. No sense carrying around what you don't need or use. There are those who would argue that a double body has better tone...I think your touch and technique has a lot more influence on that than the size of the body. One thing that never seems to be mentioned is hand position. Any serious piano teacher will stress better hand position=better freedom, better technique. Case in point for a single body. Another thing no one seems to think of is the knee levers...much easier to work with on a single body. Better feel=better technique=better tone. Just my 2 cents worth. MD

Just my 2 cents worth, but I feel the opposite about two of your points. As to hand position, I find the double body preferable, as resting the right arm on the back pad gives me stability for my picking hand. (My left arm doesn't contact the pad when I'm playing.) Piano players, by contrast, need continuous lateral freedom for both hands. As to knee levers, I find the front-to-back depth of the SD body highly desirable, as I use seven knee levers on the left knee: two going left, and two going right, in addition to a vertical. The front pair, left and right, are placed near where the back of the body would be on a straight single-neck, and the rear ones are under the rear pad area. If I had to fit them all in under a single-neck, I'd have to put my knee in so far to get the front ones that my foot/ankle wouldn't work as well, or be as comfortable. This fits my body--YMMV.

I can certainly see your point Brint with so many knee levers,not sure they would fit under a single body guitar even. MD

Paul Crawford wrote:Depending on age, there are some ergonomic advantages to a P/P that haven't been mentioned.

The older P/P guitars had the wide foot pedals. That lets someone like me with bigger feet have a little more room to manuver. I find this particularly useful for C6th playing when you often have more than one pedal involved and move a lot of tones with seperate pedals.

There is also the fact that a P/P fights back a little. Modern steels play like butter and take practically no effort at all to depress the pedals. In contrast a P/P does take some effort to fully engage a pedal or lever. While the extra tension can play havoc with those lightening fast runs, (at least for me), it also allows you to add extra expression well controlled over a longer pull. You often hear much more transition as a pedal is pressed on a P/P and getting a half pedal tone, (i.e. B to C) is a relatively easy thing to do. In contrast, my style changes with an A/P where the fast action and precise splits sounds almost like flipping a switch to my ear and yields a more sterile phrasing.

That brings up some quirks to give you some different options on a P/P. Modern All Pulls are lower dominate, meaning if you both raise and lower a string at the same time, the lower will effect the raised string giving you a split, (most popular is raising B - C# on a pedal and lower it back to C with LKV.) A P/P is raise dominate meaning if you try to lower a string that you have raised, it doesn't effect it at all. For example, now releasing the B pedal on a double lowered 6th string gives you a full 4 half-tone drop and you don't have to worry about coordinating both a lever and a pedal at the same time.

None of this make a P/P "better" than an A/P, just different. Now of course you do also get that killer tone ...

You said it all my friend.

Reece Anderson wrote:I've never heard any steel guitar tone/sound that I and someone else didn't like.

I have

TONE is in the ear of the player, every player sets up the tone he likes and to tell him his tone is not good is, at least to say, rude...

Db