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Topic: My experimental copedent sounds sour |
James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 10:13 am |
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I changed my S6 copedent to a C6 variation.
| Tab: |
LKL LKR 1 2 3 RKL RKR
1. E F
2. C C# B D D
3. A B Ab
4. G
5. E F
6. C B
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and it just doesn't sound good. I get all of the strings in tune when open and when in "pedals down" position. But it sounds out of tune up the neck, even at low frets. I know about all of the different tuning methods like equal temperament and just intonation, but I had no problem with the last copedent (the middle 6 strings of 10-string E9) sounding good tuned with a straight-up chromatic tuner. I wouldn't know what the temperament would be for this tuning, anyway.
Is there another factor that I'm missing, like string gauge?
Last edited by James Mayer on 7 Jan 2010 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 11:19 am
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Your tuning looks to be based on quartal type harmony. Stacks of 4ths, 5ths and 9ths are predominant.There are at least 6 different sus and sus9 chords available in the open position. You could tune most of your changes with harmonics just like a standard guitar. Where the changes contradict each other you need to compromise or decide which change is the most important to your playing.
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Bob |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 11:27 am
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What could explain the difference between open strings (intervals in tune) and first fret (intervals out of tune)?
Bad strings, or uneven bridge, could explain a difference that gets worse on higher frets.
I assume you are not accidentally slanting the bar.
The only thing I can think of is that with the bar at the first fret, some strings are getting pushed down further than others, and those go sharp.
What does the tuner tell you at the first fret, and open strings? |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 12:13 pm
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
What could explain the difference between open strings (intervals in tune) and first fret (intervals out of tune)?
Bad strings, or uneven bridge, could explain a difference that gets worse on higher frets.
I assume you are not accidentally slanting the bar.
The only thing I can think of is that with the bar at the first fret, some strings are getting pushed down further than others, and those go sharp.
What does the tuner tell you at the first fret, and open strings? |
The thing is, this very same instrument was fine in E9, so I'm thinking it either the strings(brand new) or the way I've set up the copedent changes. I'll check it when I get home against my turbo tuner, but I'm not slanting the bar any more than usual nor am I pressing hard into the strings. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 3:21 pm
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| Where the changes contradict each other you need to compromise or decide which change is the most important to your playing. |
Would you mind elaborating on this? I can tell you that by simply hitting the A & B pedals at the second fret for Em, it sounds strange and I'm only hitting the top three strings. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 4:32 pm
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C6th doesn't have A and B pedals. Your pedals 1 & 2 will produce an out of tune note on the first string because you are both raising and lowering it.
Try using the numbers from this meantone chart, strings 2 through 7, to tune it:
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 4:33 pm
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On your first string you have whole step lower and a half step raise on your A and B pedal. What does it do when you use both ?
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Bob |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 4:33 pm
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| Quote: |
| I can tell you that by simply hitting the A & B pedals at the second fret for Em, it sounds strange and I'm only hitting the top three strings. |
Please elaborate on this. I assume that your "A & B Pedals" are number 1 & 2. You have 2 pulls in opposite directions on string 1. IF you have a split tuner on string 1, you might get the D# (in tune) needed to get a Cm. Without a split tuner, that is unlikely, but possible if you're lucky. That would put the Em at the 4th fret, not 2nd.
You didn't mention brand of guitar. Are all the notes in tune open with a tuner? If so, have you tried tempering some of those notes to sound more in tune? I know you mentioned the strings in tune open, but are you positive? As far as the temperament, you may just have to experiment 1 string at a time by ear until you have the chords sounding sweet. If you are using the same set of strings you used for E9th, that very well could be the problem. You need to have the right gauges for a C6th tuning.
EDIT: Look at Bob's chart.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 4:39 pm
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Crap, I simply displayed it wrong:
| Tab: |
LKL LKR 1 2 3 RKL RKR
1. E F
2. C C# B D D
3. A B Ab
4. G
5. E F
6. C B
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the "A" pedal raises the C to a D.
I used a C6 non-pedal string set purchased here on the forum. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 4:57 pm
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Wow! I thought I'd lost it when looking over that first copedent, and not finding a B with the combo on the first three strings with AB.  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 5:04 pm
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| Does the A string go flat when you press the two pedals? |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 5:12 pm
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Yes that first post was confusing, I spent time, formulated a measured response and went to post it only to find that I'd been "Pipped at the Post" by a plethora of replies in a somewhat similar if not identical vein.. "drat and double drat"..
But you MUST admit it was confusing having a 1st string raise AND lower on the pedals you suggested  |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 5:19 pm
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Glad I wasn't alone in trying all the pedal combos to see what I must be missing.  |
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Adam Moritz
From:
Cedar Rapids, IA
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 7:38 pm
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on the "meantone" chart that B0B posted:
what are the "+" numbers on the left most column? Are they deviations from the reference 440 pitch?
_________________
Jackson blackjack s10
GFI Ultra 12 |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 7:52 pm
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They are percentages of deviation from standard pitch.
Commonly called "cents".
One Cent is approx four hertz. |
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