How many A6th pedal players out there?........

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 30 Dec 2009 9:00 am

While I was in SoCal last September I went to Bakersfield to see local great Larry Petree. Larry is a great player and a local legend of the steel guitar who could have been a player of national stature but chose not to and remained on the Fire Department from which he's now retired. Larry plays a D-10 guitar but has an A6th on his inside neck which he plays very well. I visited with him and Red Simpson at their gig on a Monday night and there wasn't anything lacking in his 6th style playing and it was every bit as effective as any C6th stuff. To me it would make more sense than a C6th but what do I know! Does anyone else out there use an A6th (with pedals) on their back neck or as their primary tuning on a single neck? I know that Blackie Taylor in SoCal uses a 12 string single neck in A6th which he lowers to E9 with his A & B pedals as did Ernie Hagar. Anyone else have it? Here's a shot of Larry

.....JH in Va.

George Macdonald · Post by **George Macdonald** » 30 Dec 2009 9:42 am

I tuned a 12 string MSA to A6th and lowered into E9th with A and B pedals in the early 70's. About 74 I switched to B6th and my RR knee lever raised 4 and 8 to E puting me into E9th. With 4 and 8 raised, A and B pedal raise to an A chord, like a standard E9th. I've used the B6th/E9th universal ever since.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 30 Dec 2009 10:23 am

My friend Larry Jones of Santa Rosa, CA, plays A6th on the back neck of his Sho-Bud.

And of course Herb Remington plays A6th:
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Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 30 Dec 2009 12:44 pm

Sonny Curtis comes to mind. Played with George Jones for years.

Billy Tonnesen · Post by **Billy Tonnesen** » 30 Dec 2009 2:15 pm

Yes, similiar note changes as illustrated by Bob but not the same pedal and knee set ups. I started using A6th in 1945 with 8 strings, never could pry myself away from it. Also use a combo E13th / e9th on the outside neck. I just receently posted on this tuning.

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 30 Dec 2009 5:13 pm

In the 80's I was playing with several groups, and one of them had a great singer who did a lot of songs in C and Bb. I kept A6th (like C6th only tuned down 3 frets)on one of my Sho-Buds for that singer and the C6th for the other groups on the other Sho-Bud.

It was really no difference playing, only being sure to remember what tuning you were using before playing the first notes of the intro.

Of course the A6th is a more mellow sound. (Just listen to Herb Remington for the best examples.)

Thanx,
Jim

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 30 Dec 2009 5:51 pm

Seems like every player Ive meet from northern Washington state plays that way, A6 on unis where the ab pedals down makes an 9 chord. Pretty sounds these guys make

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 2 Jan 2010 5:52 am

I used to know a guy back in my SoCal days (Dave Zeigler) who played a Uni which was a 12 string D9 which lowered to A6th for the Uni thing. I think that might be an interesting way to go. Mike Perlowin, if you see this, does Dave still do that? I know you're a friend of his.......JH in Va.

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 2 Jan 2010 7:50 am

If you want to hear A6 played at its finest, listen to Herb Remington CDs. Herb is exclusive A6.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 2 Jan 2010 9:47 am

I always have one neck tuned to A6th when playing my T-8 Stringmaster.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 2 Jan 2010 10:28 am

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 2 Jan 2010 12:20 pm

Mars Case, who passed away a couple years ago, had A6 on the back neck of his MSA Classic D10, because he was used to A6 on console steel. I never thought to find out what all the knee levers did, but he ripped out jazz, blues and rock better than 99% of the sixstringers in town. Was also a great clarinetist.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 7 Jan 2010 2:37 pm

Les Thomas, a legendary steel player out here in NZ has always had A6th on the back neck of his ShoBud !
Standard E9th on the front of course.

Eric Stumpf · Post by **Eric Stumpf** » 7 Jan 2010 2:51 pm

Since two of my heroes are Herb Remington and Noel Boggs, I'm required by law to play A6th....pedal and non-pedal.

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 2 Feb 2010 6:57 pm

Can you use the same strings/gauges or do you have to restring with new gauges. I would think you would have to regauge. Any thoughts. TC

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 2 Feb 2010 8:12 pm

To muddy the water a litle, I remember that Bobby White when he was playing his Bigsby with Hank Thompson used a Bb 6th.

And yes, you need 'bigger' strings. My gauges are:
E .014
C# .017
A .022p or .022w
F# .024w
E .030w
C# .036w
A .044w
F# .050w
D .056w
A .070w

These are probably not optimum, but they worked on my Sho-Buds.

Thanx,
Jim

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 2 Feb 2010 8:16 pm

PS- Herb uses a wound third string, which helps to give 'that' sound he has.

Thanx,
Jim

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 2 Feb 2010 8:31 pm

I thought so. I tried to retune from C6 to A6 on my Lil Roy and the strings felt like mush. I play mostly my D8 Gibson Consolete with the E13/9 and A6 tunings in my group which plays Hank and Wills type stuff. Fell in love with the A6 sound and feel and now want to transfer that to my pedal steel rig. I don't play pedal steel near as much as straight steel, but I still see no reason to stay on C6 if all my other steels are tuned to A6. Would think that A6 would be a bit tougher sounding. I do get a little disoriented when I sit down at C6 after so much A6. Thanks for the gauge help. I just play for local groups for fun and love of music, but I am trying to progress as a player as much as possible. Thanks SGF for helping to make that possible, TC

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 8 Feb 2010 8:05 pm

Just restrung my back neck on my D10 Emmons Legrande to A6. Wish I had done it sooner. I play mostly a console D8 Gibson in A6 and E13/9. Only play pedal steel for one group once in a while, and always had to recalibrate to C6 from A6. I just love the deeper, tougher sound of A6. It seems to make more sense. I really love the old Herb Remington sound. Have not had a chance to play with the group yet but should prove to be a better setup for me. My main gig is Hank Williams, and Bob Wills type music,and A6 and E13 seem to be the go to tunings for that type of music. If I only had one lap steel to play every thing I would choose C6,but I have gone too far in A6 to turn back now. Lovin my A6, TC

Billy Tonnesen · Post by **Billy Tonnesen** » 8 Feb 2010 10:01 pm

When I recorded "Sunflower" with Frank Sinatra in 1948 I played my solo part on my A6th tuning. I used my E13th on the opening chord and a little of the backgroud but primarily the record was mostly in A6th. These were non-pedal tunings.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 9 Feb 2010 2:43 am

Hey Billy, when you were at the old Skylite club, what tuning(s) did you have on your Fender 1000? Also, did you have any knee levers on that guitar?....JH in Va.

Matt Berg · Post by **Matt Berg** » 9 Feb 2010 10:54 am

So I guess it goes without saying that A6 was one of the original tunings for a stock Fender 1000?

http://www.edusoft.ca/1000/fender_1000.pdf

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 9 Feb 2010 11:27 am

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Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 9 Feb 2010 11:45 am

I see from that manual that the A6th tuning was on the (1st neck) and the E7 tuning on the (2nd neck)... Which neck would be considered the 1st, the inside or the outside? I had an old Fender 1000 at one point which had an E9 on the outside which was set up like the 1st 8 strings of a standard E9. A steel player in SoCal (Waylon Brumley) set it up like it was. The inside neck was an A6th but I changed it to another E tuning with lower strings going from E to E (same as low E on a standard guitar) to be able to do some blues shuffle type guitar parts on the lower register.

I had another 1000 for a short time that someone had made a standup non pedal guitar out of. All of the cables and such had been removed from under the guitar but the changer was still in it. It also had the long legs with it! It was tuned to an E13th and a C6th. I kept it for a short time and then sold it for a little more than I paid for it, kinda wish I had that one back too.....JH in Va.

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 9 Feb 2010 12:23 pm

Deleted.