The Steel Guitar Forum

Bobbe, like many others I enjoy your playing very much, but I'm really only acquainted with your solo work of later years.

Hidden away in a cupboard I have close to one thousand country LPs from the seventies and eighties; many of them lacking information about who's playing on them.

Considering your distinguished career, I bet it's your steel playing on one or two (or fifty...), but I don't know which ones. So, here goes: Could you please list a bunch of better-known tracks you played backup on back then, so we all can rediscover your playing?

yeah....i'm curious too!

Somewhere on the forum is a copy of my nomination for the SGHoF, It lists several hundred artists I have recorded with.

I started recording as a studio musician in 1969 in Nashville, and was very busy in the '70s untill I burned out, I still did sessions on a smaller scale for a while then I just got where I hated doing them. I hope I'll do more for myself, but have no interest in doing any for others,,,,,,,,,Things just aren't the way they were in the "golden age of country music"! We used to be able to do 20 sessions a week, now we/you have trouble doing 7

In going back over all my session scheduling books and counting sessions between '70 to '80 the number of sessions counting demos, customs and masters was well over a thousand.

Where are these Master tapes now? Probably in dumpsters all over music row in Nashville.

Things recorded today just don't attain legendary status like the great songs of yesterday did.

All the Faron Young, Webb Pierce, Jimmy Dickins, Carl Smith, Ray Price, Charlie Walker, Wynn Stewart, Buck Owens, and the like are still loved for the steel on their records but this is a lost trend I'm afraid,, to a major extent. John Hugy's recording with Vince is an exception, very good. (as are a few others).

But you guys are luckier today than those days because the good steel artists are putting out great instrumentals themselvs that were never available years ago. Some are done well, some aren't. But steel is more available than ever.

I never wanted to attach my talent and reputation to some singing star that couldn't even play rhythm guitar or even count a song off, no matter how famous he (or she)was. I wanted to be appreciated for my talent and what "I" did and not for "WHO" I worked for. It seems like the steel player with the longest list of stars he's worked for gets into the SGHoF while some truly great players that have helped hundreds of others don't make it at all.

I love steel players for what they do behind the guitar, not for who they work for! Getting a job doesn't take much ability, playing well does though.

Hope this answers your questions about my love for steel players,

Bobbe

Bobbe,

I just wanted to briefly say that I agree with you 100% and wish things were better in Country Music like it used to be.

Herby Wallace

I would like to respectfully disagree that we are luckier today because of all the solo steel guitar records that are available. I prefer to listen to steel players accompany a good singer like Wynn Stewart, Buck Owens, etc. I tend to find solo steel records a bit tedious, but I love the ingenious ways that the great steel players construct melodic intros, solo breaks, and comp behind those legendary singers. I don't think that Per Berner was trying to check your resume, but was interested in hearing you in a supportive role. No doubt we are luckier for other reasons such as all the music and info on the internet.

I had to weigh in here and say that I agree that good country is hard to find now-a days! Just finding a good band that even knows what good country is , is a major task here in the Carolinas. I used to could drive 5-7 miles on Sat.night and find atleast 4 nightclubs that played good Honky Tonk country. I like instrumentals and hearing a player express his feelings off the top of his head....unrehearsed and off the cuff! Some of you may know me and alot of you don't but thats the way I try to play. Play the melody...with feeling and you'll get satisfaction every time. Its players like Bobbe, Herby, Buddy Emmons, John Hughey, Tommy White,and yes even Jeff Newman that are on my list of Superstars. My biggest fear now is we are all getting older and even with all the internet learning capabilities ,Theres so much I wanna learn from them before all the greats are gone. But thats what makes steel guitar so awesome is ... You never learn it all! Everybody plays different styles and has different personalitys..... Aint it great!

There we go again--ITS HARD TO FIND A GOOD BAND,SHURE.

Thanks for replying! Still just as curious, though

Thanks for being there for us Bobbe.

I'm a fan of great musicians, Steel or any instrument.
I'd love for great well trained musicians to get the credit that unskilled singers get. I think it would be nice to see Ray Price be famous because of Buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day, or Conway Twitty be famous because of John Hugy! Instead of the other way around.

Bobbe

BobbeSeymour wrote:Brian Doyle, It's pretty obvious that you are more of a country music fan than you are a steel guitar fan.
I could care less about the singers that get in the way of the music. I'm a fan of great musicians, Steel or any instrument.
I'd love for great well trained musicians to get the credit that unskilled singers get. I think it would be nice to see Ray Price be famous because of Buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day, or Conway Twitty be famous because of John Hugy! Instead of the other way around.
Do I disagree with you? YES!
Bobbe

Brian prefers steel in the context of a good song. I am right there with him. I cant stand most solo steel albums for the reasons Brian mentioned. I consider myself a fan of the pedal steel guitar. I just find it much more engaging and moving and interesting in a song with lyrics. I love these steel players dearly, but I cannot listen to their instrumental albums...Emmons maybe, Day maybe, Lloyd maybe...but even for those masters, I vastly prefer their other work supporting singers. I am from a different genration but I never would have heard of Ray Price if my interest in Emmons and day hadnt lead me to his work.

Music is never like it was in the old days. In the old days, people were probably complaining music wasnt like it was in the old days.

Lloyd Green still plays on other peoples albums...despite things not being the same as they were in the glory days and his current work is greatly appreciated and he is drawing in new fans who have never heard him before.
share the love. if ya got it use it. we want what you got, we need it, we love it. dont be mean and deny us

I love and respect all you guys! rock on

I absolutely love the solo steel recordings!! I have more difficulties listening to the sangers. I guess I'm more a steel guitar fan than a country music fan. This might make a good poll... as long as it stayed civil...
Bobbe, please don't sing on your recordings...

If the same love and care of production would go into a steel instrumental recording as goes into a Madona, Carry Underwood or Vince Gill recording, I feel you'd enjoy the instrumentals much more than you do now.

Unfortunately, most steel CDs are not produced at all, the player just gets some of his buddys together and heads for a garage studio where he can get a fifteen dollar an hour rate.

No wonder you prefer to listen to a million dollar Nashville vocal session. However, a real hard core steel fan will take a pure steel recording over hearing a voice warbleing anytime. This says nothing about the intelligence level the words have in the new "country"
music.

Now I'm not going to argue steel guitar with "country music only" fans so remember what forum you are on here,
and if you want to argue to virtues of Dwight Yokum compared to "The Greatful Dead" finding another forum might be a good Idea. You need to listen to what you like, but remember, there are some very famous players working with big famous names that really don't play all that well. (and don't need to)

Also there are some great incredible players that never leave home but just do it as a hobby, Is he no good because he isn't working with a famous "Star"?
no, Fame and ability don't necessarily always go together. Bad news huh?

Bobbe

I think it would to be hard these days to promote steel guitar solos CD out side of our little steel guitar world. Most people want to hear more a than steel guitar. Maybe some of us let our ego get in the way. Joe

"If the same love and care of production would go into a steel instrumental recording as goes into a Madona, Carry Underwood or Vince Gill recording, I feel you'd enjoy the instrumentals much more than you do now." Boy, you nailed that one on the head, Bobbe. One can get by some of the technical probs with some really great thoughtful arrangements and playing, but it's hard to wear enough hats to put the sheen on the recording that will match the radio level. For us little guys, the gear has really got sophisticated over the last 20 years and reasonably priced, but how to use that gear... Aye, there's the rub.

Yes Joe M., most folks have to have poetry going on in the music because it's something they can understand, they don't even know what a steel guitar is,
But why has Kenny G. sold so many CDs and why can't a steel player do it? Probably could with the correct promotion. Then there was "Zamfir" and his Pan Flute!

I'm not convinced that there can't be a world wide smash hit on steel guitar with the correct promo.

Bobbe

BobbeSeymour wrote:If the same love and care of production would go into a steel instrumental recording as goes into a Madona, Carry Underwood or Vince Gill recording, I feel you'd enjoy the instrumentals much more than you do now.

Bobbe

nope. your feeling is not correct. I dont care about the production. In fact i very much dislike glossy studio production as well as the work of the singers you mentioned. why has Kenny G sold a million records and Joe Blow Steel player has not? because there is no accouting for taste and because the masses usually gravitate toward the blandest most banal pap, not because his album is over produced or recorded in a million dollar studio. Its also because steel solo albums dont contain catchy songs people can relate to, they contain the nine millionth version of steel guitar rag and that does not sell Pepsi or get kids to spend their allowances on cds (downloads now?)

i dont get what me likeing Dwight yoakam or the gratful dead has to do with anything (I like Yoakam and dont like the Dead for what its worth)?

My only point was, that like Brian, I prefer steel in the context of a great song with vocals AND I AM A STEEL GUITAR FAN wether you like it or not or wanna call me some other kind of fan or pretend I like madonna or whatever.

Your point seems to be that todays music sucks, singers suck, its not fair that they get million dollar productiona nd steel players solo albums dont, its not worth recording on anyone elses sessions anymore becuase music today just isnt worth participatuing in, and if you dont care for steel instrumentals you dont care for steel.

we disagree and I am glad I dont feel that way and grateful other steel players who DO play on other peoples sessions dont seem to feel that way either.

oh well...

Here's some food for thought from my opinionated brain.

I agree with Joe. I think instrumental CD's are basically to market to other musicians. Musicians have never got enough recognization in most forms of music. Bluegrass is better about that than most. The Country Family Reunion shows on RFD have featured bluegrass players that didn't sing a note.

Remember the Pop Goes the Country, etc... shows and the band was usually sitting in the dark? Every now and then they'd show the hands of the players, but rarely the face. It was like they didn't want you to know who they were. Maybe witness protection program in action?

How many times have you listened to someone singing on the radio and you've waited for the steel, etc... solo and right when the time comes for it, they start talking, "come on down to Jumping Joe's furniture", etc...

I'm with Bobbe on the "who you play for" thing. There's too much hype associated with popular players. Just because someone is a good player, doesn't make everything they do something amazing. I've heard great players play stuff that I thought sucked, and I've heard hobby players really impress me. It's a huge misconception that the best entertainers have the best players. I'd beg to differ. I think they have the best players that are available and dependable. Look at W.C. Edgar's search for a steel player. It's never their playing ability that creates a problem, it's personal issues, other jobs, etc... A road band must have dependability first and hot licks second.

Also consider that what you hear on records is a refined product, and the player had as many chances as they needed to get it right. Also, if you play for a big name act, you only have to know a couple dozen songs.

My listening preference is live recordings, with all the MC work included, and not overproduced.

BobbeSeymour wrote:Yes Joe M., most folks have to have poetry going on in the music because it's something they can understand, they don't even know what a steel guitar is,
But why has Kenny G. sold so many CDs and why can't a steel player do it? Probably could with the correct promotion. Then there was "Zamfir" and his Pan Flute!

I'm not convinced that there can't be a world wide smash hit on steel guitar with the correct promo.

Bobbe

You were talking about $$$$$ production, and now your talking about $$$$$ promotion. I think the promotion is where it's at. I have to admit, Zamfir is the best pan flute player I've ever heard.

Well Ben, it's nice to know you, but as I said in my last chapter, I'll not argue with you about your taste in music. I'd love a list of your friends that feel the way you do though.
There are some great singers today, and some great music, but I don't care to hear them, my personal taste, I prefer steel guitar, in about any form.

When I listen to steel guitar, I hear and study the players execution of every note, the tones of different notes, the chord structures, triads to compound and simple intervals. So many things to watch and listen for when hearing a great player do his thing, but if you don't understand what you are hearing, I guess it would be boring. At least with the new teenagers in "country", you'll have something to look at you can understand.

Some things require cultivation of taste, like Opra, Symphony, and to some JAZZ. Some forms of music are very simple, some are complex, but even simplicity is intresting if you listen closly and understand what you are hearing, as long as it's tastful.

Steel guitar is a wonderful instrument and like any complicated instrument, it needs to be studied and the great players need to be studied to be appreciated to their fullest extent, but beauty is beauty and steel guitar is beautiful.(played correctly of course)

A person that makes the jump to appreciating the finest qualities of this instrument, may have trouble listening to a 17 year old high school drop out on the Opry instead of hearing a Tommy White instrumental, regardless of how many CDs the label sells. I'd rather listen to Mud Wrestling!


Bobbe

I think you misundertand or presume what my taste in music is but its nice to know you to Bobbe.

For the record I cannot stand new country and wont be listening to the Opry any time soon either.

Ben,
I feel I must say that I do agree with a lot of what you say and if I try harder, possibly even more. Music sure is a subjective subject huh?

Your buddy,
Bobbe

[With apologies to Per, I don't think my aside is going to help answer your question to Bobbe, but this is where the discussion is at this time.]

If we think the Steel Guitar is stunted now, just imagine what it would be like it there had not been all these fabulous instrumental works by the masters to demonstrate what the instrument is capable of. Talk about stuck in the dark ages. Wow!

I mean to each his own, but the enormous scope and range of the steel guitar is barely implied being played behind singers on records.

I can say I learned more about the instrument's capabilities and it's players in my first weekend in St Louis than I could ever imagine learning in a lifetime of listening to steel guitar back up singers, which I must add, I also enjoy as well.

Jerry Overstreet,
I feel Ben, as myself will agree with this Jerry. However, there is still a lot more to come in the styles of steel guitar, it is capable of so much that no one has ever even thought of.

Shame I won't be around to see it all happen!

bobbe

BobbeSeymour wrote:Shame I won't be around to see it all happen!bobbe

What? You planning on goin' somewhere Bobbe?