The Steel Guitar Forum

I have 2 questions that I have been arguing over for
a long time. I cannot get the A strings to hold tuning for very long.



2. Electric 4 string mandocaster are these useful
in any grass music?

Eddie, you shouldn't have any problem in tuning the A string(s) anymore than the rest. I've had many mandolins since the fifties and have never had any trouble with any of 'em holding tuning.

As far as the 4 string Fender type mandolin, they're a waste! The don't sound like a mandolin, more like a high pitched guitar.........JH in Va.

1. Take your tuners to a good repairperson - you may have a bad gear on the tuner. Stewart McDonald has full replacement sets.

2. Unless you're playing jazzy progressive Bluegrass, nothing beats the sound of an acoustic mandolin in that music - it's THE sound of the music; a voice when soloing and effectively, the snare drum when chopping.

I agree that 4-string electric mandolin sounds more like high frets on the guitar than mandolin- even when Tiny Moore played it. There are 8-string electrics out there.

What kind of mandolin? Strange that only the "A" would be a problem. Make sure you have them wrapped on the keys enough. I sometimes run them back through the hole to make sure they don't slip. Also check the part of the tuning keys that provides the friction to hold them tight. You'll have to play them enough to let them stretch out. It takes awhile. Mandolins are difficult because of the unison strings so you've always got something for a direct comparison. Lucky thing is that they don't sound so bad when they're out of tune and you're playing.......... within reason.

Second question.......... NO

Also, make sure the nut slots aren't pinching the strings. Put some pencil lead in them.

Thanks to each of you who have taken the time to respond. All the info is very useful to me.

Allways loved to hear Ricky Skaggs play the Mandocaster. In his old country band before he went grass all the way. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Charles, was his rig a 5 string mandocaster?
Seems like it was kinda purple .

That was some extremely good music and pickin'.

Eddie,Not sure but think it was a four string,the one I remember was blond looked like a mini tele.I have an old Austin City Limits vidio around somewhere of him playing it,I think Bruce Bolton was playing with him at the time,they were HOT. YOU BETCHA, DYK?BC.

eddie;
for an electric with a true mandolin sound, the ovation, does a close fit.
they make 2 models.
the celebrity(lesser priced)is great if you are not full time, hard core bluegrass.also an applause version is out there. the e,ectronics are good, the fretboard is soft and intonation may be off, a lil'.
i see these good, used around $250 - $300(new $500 - $600 (list $750).
there is one at guitar center in jackson, rat now!
then there is a pro version with a better fretboard
and i think assembled and set-up in the u.s., in the $3000.00 range(this one is really good)
but, don't show up at a bluegrass festival with one!
jack.............

Another culprit in mando detuning is the tailpiece. I don't know what you've got, but many of the lower-end mandos have very thin metal tailpieces that have been die stamped to raise the fingers that loop-end strings attach to. A mandolin is a very high tension instrument, and I've seen detuning problems that were caused by these flimsy fingers bending ever so slightly. It does seem odd that your A's are the only ones slipping, whatever the cause. If you rule out the tuning machine, you might take a close look at the tailpiece fingers.

Is a 4 string good for bluegrass... no. Why? 'Cause it don't sound "grassy". Not even a little. But having said that, I don't think they're worthless, either. I have 2 mando's; a 4 string and an F-style 8 string. Whoever said they sound like a guitar was right, they do. My 4 string started life as an acoustic A style 8 string, which I converted to electric by installing a single coil pickup. I tune it A-D-G-C, so it's not quite so high pitched (a fifth lower). It has a very low action, and an adjustable bridge so I can dial in the intonation. When recorded, it's hard to tell it's not a guitar. I play 6 string guitar too, but having played mostly fiddle, I tend to think in fifths. So, not for BG, but they have their place.

Charles Davidson wrote:Eddie,Not sure but think it was a four string,the one I remember was blond looked like a mini tele.I have an old Austin City Limits vidio around somewhere of him playing it,I think Bruce Bolton was playing with him at the time,they were HOT. YOU BETCHA, DYK?BC.

The Joe Glaser built Mandocaster that Ricky played was a 5-string with a whole step "Glaser Bender" on the "A" string.
The Austin City Limits clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPYxj3QBkIs

Charles Davidson wrote:Allways loved to hear Ricky Skaggs play the Mandocaster. In his old country band before he went grass all the way. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

The old country band he had AFTER he left bluegrass!

I believe the Fender 4-string electric Mandolins were created for the likes of Tiny Moore and Johnny Gimble for playing in Western Swing Bands. It made it easier to play Jazz and the high tenor when playing 3-part harmonies in conjunction with Lead and Steel Guitars. It was a differen't animal and not intended to sound like traditional Mandolins. I'm sure Herb Remington and Jody Carver could expound on this in much greater detail. This style of playing by Tiny Moore is demonstrated in the "Bob Wills Tiffany Transcriptions" from the 40's and is still an inspiration to many of today's Musicians.

Billy is exactly right. My little converted A model is functionally the same as a Mandocaster. Plug it into the right setup, and it's a string-bending monster.

Alvin, if that Sho~Bud in your avatar ever gets lonesome, bring it to the house here, and it can visit with it's identical twin brother.

Back to the OP, if you're looking for a traditional type mando to play BG but need amplification, my F model is a Michael Kelly. It's made very well out of good wood, and has very high quality Fishman electronics built in. I will say however, that I had to do some extensive setup work on it to make it playable. The bridge base didn't fit the top, the strings were WAY too high over fret 1, the truss rod needed adjustment, the frets had not been dressed at all, etc. And I put an Allen tailpiece on it to avoid that detuning problem I discussed earlier. Once all this was taken care of, it is a fine mandolin. I think I paid $600 for it and the case. Usually it's the figurement of the wood and the finish work that separate a $500 mando from a $2000 mando. I'm happy with it. It's not for sale; just something you might want to consider.

Alvin,I was talking about Kentucky Thunder his band after he was doing his country things like Highway 40 blues, Not sure if I'm right but seems I read when he was doing the country thing his label would'nt let him do grass.when he left he put his grass band back. Maybe someone know for sure,no big deal, I LIKE everything he ever did. SORRY got sidetracked from the original post. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Charles Davidson wrote:Alvin,I was talking about Kentucky Thunder his band after he was doing his country things like Highway 40 blues, Not sure if I'm right but seems I read when he was doing the country thing his label would'nt let him do grass.when he left he put his grass band back. Maybe someone know for sure,no big deal, I LIKE everything he ever did. SORRY got sidetracked from the original post. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

It's all good, but I was referring to his Bluegrass career before he went country. Bands like The New South, Clinch Mt Boys, and Boone Creek. He did YEARS of great bluegrass before he ever picked up a tele.

No matter how well you play a 5-string solid mandolin it's going to sound like a tenor guitar, and NOT like a mandolin. The best instrument to sound like a mandolin is a mandolin.

By the way, I built a 10-string (5-course) solid mandolin a few years back. Sounds great, but not like a mandolin.

...and the double courses DO make a difference to the sound.

Just wanted to say that I had this happen once, and almost drove me crazy. It turned out to be the strings. As I tuned, the loop on the end of the string that attaches to the tailpiece, got smaller. It was unwinding. I could get it in tune, but a minute later would be out. I bought a better brand of strings and had no more problems.