6 or 8 string hawaiian lap steel

[Joseph Salesi]

Hello,
I posted this in the Wanted forum, but wanted to ask the experts.

I'm a noob and I'm interested in learning 6 or 8 string hawaiian lap steel (WP). Can anyone suggest some starting gear and materials? I'm looking for a decent sounding guitar that's under $500 and some recommendations for bar, picks, and learning material such as books and DVDs.

Thank you very much
JS

[Josh Cho]

Joseph,

Welcome to the wonderful world of lap steel.

My suggestions, for a great guitar in your price range, check out Dynalap, which are made here in the US and are 8 string

Get an 8 string--you can always take two strings off to practice 6 string materials, which leads me to...

...most beginners find the Dewitt "Scotty" Scott method by Mel Bay a good place to start.

Josh

[Joseph Salesi]

Hi Josh,

Thanks for the info. I didn't even think about taking strings off an 8 string to make it a 6.

Joe

[Paul Russell]

Hello,
I posted this in the Wanted forum, but wanted to ask the experts.

I'm a noob and I'm interested in learning 6 or 8 string hawaiian lap steel (WP). Can anyone suggest some starting gear and materials? I'm looking for a decent sounding guitar that's under $500 and some recommendations for bar, picks, and learning material such as books and DVDs.

Thank you very much
JS

I am new to all of this too and I bought my lap steel off of a local guy that posted an ad on Craigslist. He purchased it in from www.musiciansfriend.com. It came with the legs and gig bag. It's pretty nice, in my opinion (but then again what do I know as I am brand new as well..lol). I also purchased an instructional book by Mel Bays. Hope this helps. Good luck.

[Joseph Salesi]

Thanks for the response.

I'm starting to think that my questions are probably all too familiar in this forum (although I can't find any).

[Ron Whitfield]

Start off with Jerry Byrd's course and video if you have the $ (nearly $200 new, and worth it). Or find someone who's dedicated to faithfully teaching his way. The correct fundimentals are crucial to getting the most out of yourself and your guitar.
Then check out everything by everyone else and incorporate it into your playing.

[Roman Sonnleitner]

If you decide on using the C6 tuning, this is a very good DVD to get started: http://www.amazon.com/presents-Anyone-P ... =8-1-fkmr0
- actually, my favorite of all the C6 beginners books & DVDs I own.

Once you've mastered the basics, this one is a good follow-up:
http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Western-Gui ... =8-1-fkmr0

[Lynn Oliver]

A good teacher would be my first choice, although there are not so many lap steel teachers around. John Ely is doing online lessons, which might be worth checking out.

Used Valcos/Supros are pretty inexpensive. Get someone familiar with the models to advise.

John Pearse sells a nice 3/4" round nose bar, or if you want to invest a bit more look at the Tibotone bars.

To some extent, instructional material depends on what styles and tuning(s) you are interested in.

[Joseph Salesi]

Thanks for all the help.

I think I like the C6 tuning so far. Given me being a novice, I'm merely going by what I hear.

Question about playing style: can Hawaiian style be applied to country? I know that there are lots of different tunings and techniques, but it seems like the Hawaiian chord changes, etc, are close to country music progression, so the same style of playing can apply. Is this correct? The reason I'm asking, is that I have friends who play country but I want to learn Hawaiian song styles. Will I be able to play along with them from what I learn?

Thanks

[Joseph Salesi]

Oh one other thing. I've been looking around for 8 string lap and I'm finding that they're so much more expensive than the 6 strings. They're also really hard to find. Does anyone have experience with the Morrell brand? Whenever I do an Internet search, their name always comes up.

I've got a feeling that I'll need to spend over $500 for a decent one (ouch), unless I go for the Dynalap kit. lol

[Mike Neer]

Thanks for all the help.

I think I like the C6 tuning so far. Given me being a novice, I'm merely going by what I hear.

Question about playing style: can Hawaiian style be applied to country? I know that there are lots of different tunings and techniques, but it seems like the Hawaiian chord changes, etc, are close to country music progression, so the same style of playing can apply. Is this correct? The reason I'm asking, is that I have friends who play country but I want to learn Hawaiian song styles. Will I be able to play along with them from what I learn?

Thanks

The quick answer is yes, although you will need to adopt a different approach to certain techniques, such as vibrato and right hand technique (blocking and picking). I started off playing somewhat in the Hawaiian style (early styles) and later became influenced by many of the pedal steel sounds I've heard and enjoyed all my life. You just need to be mindful of how you sound in the context of the music and make the adjustments necessary.

[Joseph Salesi]

Thanks for all the help.

I think I like the C6 tuning so far. Given me being a novice, I'm merely going by what I hear.

Question about playing style: can Hawaiian style be applied to country? I know that there are lots of different tunings and techniques, but it seems like the Hawaiian chord changes, etc, are close to country music progression, so the same style of playing can apply. Is this correct? The reason I'm asking, is that I have friends who play country but I want to learn Hawaiian song styles. Will I be able to play along with them from what I learn?

Thanks

The quick answer is yes, although you will need to adopt a different approach to certain techniques, such as vibrato and right hand technique (blocking and picking). I started off playing somewhat in the Hawaiian style (early styles) and later became influenced by many of the pedal steel sounds I've heard and enjoyed all my life. You just need to be mindful of how you sound in the context of the music and make the adjustments necessary.

Good to hear. Thanks. Do you use a pedal steel or non pedal?

[Mike Neer]

Non-pedal only. I have played pedal steel in the past (poorly), so I know how it works, but I much prefer to just continue moving forward with non-pedal.

[Blake Wilson]

I think one of the most important and rewarding tools for getting to know a new instrument is transcribing and playing the songs you love. By "transcribing", I mean sitting down and playing the records and learning them by ear. Write down your arrangements if necessary, but try to memorize the song's melody, words, chords, and solos (if any). Scales, modes, and theory certainly have their place in music, but a lot of teachers recommend that you practice only what you'd play for an audience; meaning "learn and play songs".

Of course, getting the basics down (using something like Scotty's Mel Bay book) is a prerequisite. But after that, throw on a record you like (I love to play along with Jerry Byrd's "Byrd of Paradise") and try to figure the basic chords, then the melodies. Play them over and over and concentrate on getting clean, well-tuned pitches before you get too excited about vibrato, harmonics, slants and so on. That will come with time. Once you've learned a melody, move to another part of the fretboard and learn it there.

Keep in mind that if you're playing solo, you're going to naturally be inclined to fill up the frequency spectrum with big chords; however, in most circumstances, you'd be playing with some kind of accompaniment that will take up the bass and middle, so don't be afraid to simply play two-note "chords" that might sound thin on their own, but just right in the group. I'm thinking here of Don Helm's signature tags and solos with Hank Williams. I learned quickly that playing the bottom 1-3-5 triad in C6 tuning in a group setting really muddies up the range that a rhythm guitarist normally occupies.

Hope this helps!

Blake Wilson

[Joseph Salesi]

Thanks, Blake. That's some good advice. And I agree with you 100%. I've been a musician for 30 years (upright bass, guitar, and just started some banjo), and I do think it's best to play to songs.

I have this great software package called "Band-in-a-Box" that allows you to select song styles and instruments, and then you can play along with the band. I use it for bass and guitar, and it's definitely a perfect tool for something like lap steel because the styles are there. I don't know if you're allowed to post links here, but you can check it out at pgmusic . com. It's definitely one of the best tools I've ever used for learning and practicing an instrument.

But for me, I've yet to even go through a beginner's book which is always required reading. I mean, I don't even have a lap steel yet (not easy to find one).

[Ron Whitfield]

I've got a feeling that I'll need to spend over $500 for a decent one (ouch), unless I go for the Dynalap kit. lol

Take Josh's advice towards the www.dynalap.com and do as you mentioned in getting the kit. Superb sound and playability. Plus putting it to gether will give you even more insight to the instrument.
These stack up against any steel.

[Lynn Oliver]

I think one of the most important and rewarding tools for getting to know a new instrument is transcribing and playing the songs you love...

I agree with this, but how do you find recordings in the tuning you are learning?

[Joseph Salesi]

I think one of the most important and rewarding tools for getting to know a new instrument is transcribing and playing the songs you love...

I agree with this, but how do you find recordings in the tuning you are learning?

That's one of the reasons why I like to use Band-in-a-Box. Because you can enter the chords yourself, select the style, mute the guitar, and play in your tuning along with the song.

[Lynn Oliver]

I was referring to transcribing, not backing tracks. I've done a lot of transcribing on other instruments--which tend to have "standard" tunings--but the many lap steel tunings seem to present an additional obstacle. At least for a relative beginner like me.

[Ray Montee]

Joseph.....
You might wish to visit the JerryByrd-FanClub.com/
There's an entire page dealing with the kind of info' a relative newcomer might want to examine. Jerry was acknowledged world wide as The MASTER of TOUCH & TONE. There are some songs on the site that should spur your interest in steel guitar, even MORE!

For your info'.......he played country, pop and Hawaiian on a Hawaiian Steel Guitar.

[Blake Wilson]

I think one of the most important and rewarding tools for getting to know a new instrument is transcribing and playing the songs you love...

I agree with this, but how do you find recordings in the tuning you are learning?

Good question. Unless you're clued in (via web research, this forum, a teacher), how to know what's out there and whether it's in your tuning?

Here's an answer: it doesn't matter! Just about any of the standard lap steel tunings are going to supply you with all or most of the chords you'll be using, and obviously you can pick out melodies in any tuning. The idea here isn't to copy the music you like (although that's fun too), but to learn your fretboard and train your ear.

An example: when I started playing I figured out most of the Don Helms playing on Hank's stuff...in C6th, without any books or web research. I was certain that my intonation and transcription were correct by playing along with the records, but could not believe he played so high up on the fretboard. Of course, I later found he's in a higher (E6th or 13th) tuning so he's not crunching the strings quite as much as you do in C6th...but all the barring, slants, etc, I learned is the same, just down several frets. So different tunings, but great results all the same.

And eventually, you'll get good enough to recognize the tuning just by hearing it. I am not there yet, but can hear when that 6th is prominent and can usually go from there.

A last note (get it?) on tunings: I use C6th and Leavitt. The latter is a quick and easy retune from the former, and if you've heard Roy Thomson's and Mike Ihde's stuff (both as performers and educators), you'll find this a lush, sophisticated tuning that works as a great complement to the standard C6th. Try it out after you've conquered the basics.

Blake