Weird Tuning Problem

Tony Kotula · Post by **Tony Kotula** » 18 Oct 2009 8:19 pm

Recently I have been expderiencing a problem with my meter on my Boss tuner. I play a steady 3 nighter. And my steel does'nt get moved around a lot. The problem I have been having is, that sometimes when I go to check my tunings with my tuner the meter/needle jumps back and forth like if I was in the Bermuda Triangle. I can start off the evening with a quick tune up. No problem. And later into the evening when I check it with the same tuner,the meter acts up again. And the needle wont settle down. When this happens my F# reads it's a B and so on.
This happens to both necks too. I will plug my Tele into the tuner when this happens to see if it's the same problem on my guitar, and the guitar tunes up fine! Plug it back into the steel and "WHACKO!". The next night is like nothing was wrong. 3rd. night it starts again.
I used new cables,batteries. And I have 3 tuners. They all would act up! I even bought a new tuner to see if it would act up when this occurs. And the new tuner reacts the same! So it cannot be a tuner issue!
I put an OHM meter on the pickups. No probs there!
When this erratic tuner does it's..there's no hum or crackling in my amps when i plug the steel back in.
I tune direct to the steel. I cleaned the input jack. And looked for any broken or loose connections on my neck selector switch and tone control. I play an Excel 2000
D10 left hand model. It's 12yrs old. I have never had a problem with this guitar since I bought it new!
Has anyone out there ever heard of or encountered this?
It's as aggravating as it is baffling!! I talk with Don E.Curtis about this. And he's stumped too!!
ANY IDEAS? someone did suggest that I use a left handed tuner!! lol...

admin · Post by **b0b** » 18 Oct 2009 9:26 pm

That's what happens to me when the neck selector switch is on the wrong neck.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 18 Oct 2009 9:53 pm

Let me guess. You're using a TU-15 right? Not all, but a lot of those give problems when tuning the high G# and A.

To rule out any problems with your guitar. Carry all 3 tuners with you.When one acts up. Try one of the others.If all 3 fail? Borrow a tuner from a band mate.If you still have problems. Then there must be a problem with the guitar or cable. Just my thoughts........bb

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 19 Oct 2009 2:49 am

Tony... in addition to the solution Georg mentioned, you might also try connecting the cord coming from the volume pedal to your tuner and depressing the VP only part way, this method worked when my Boss TU-12 was causing a similar problem..

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 19 Oct 2009 6:13 am

Tony, this might be a wild guess, but have you considered the fact that your tuner microphone picks up exterior sounds like voices talking and maybe the jukebox playing. I remember that this happened to me and my big old Korg tuner back in the early 80's and this was the problem for me. You mention the fact that second tuning was done thru the evening.

Also what Georg said about tuning on the 12th fret harmonic, especially the 6 lowest strings. It does make the needle more steady.

Tony Kotula · Post by **Tony Kotula** » 19 Oct 2009 12:02 pm

wow! thanks for all the responses on this! yes i am using a TU15 now. I also have a TU12 & TU12H. I started to use the 15 because of the lighted meter! I do have all 3 tuners with me on the gig. And what's really strange, is that when this occured last fri.night, my lead man ran a cable from my steel directly into his tuner in his pod unit. It responded in the same strange way.
I can understand the tuner mic thing. But I never had this problem in the 3+yrs. that I have been at this club. And never in over 30yrs of playing. I also had a new tuner on hand to try when this occured with my other tuner. It did the same thing.
I also sat after the bar was closed with my steel in total quiet to see if that would make a difference. It did not. Then next evening it was fine. until after 11pm.
I ran my tuner inline at the begining of the night. I tuned up. The jukebox is cranking then too! It was perfect. I checked it 2x thru the night and it was fine.
Then after the 3rd set. I turned on the tuner and "WHACKO" again! That's when I opened up the new TU15 and plugged it in. And it was still weird. My cables are new.

I have it home...and cannot get it to do that so far!
Bob, it does seem like an over bleed from neck selector switch gone bad. That was my first guess. But when the thing is tuning perfect, I go to the C6th neck with the tuner on and pluck an E9th. string and the needle does not move. So theoretically I have to think that the switch is not the problem...for now anyway.
Someone suggested that my input jack is bad. Well, ok...
how does that happen? Other than some corrosion, bar smoke and funk that seems to creep into musical gear (i call it BARCHEESE) what else can go wrong? The connection is solid. And the jack never moves. Is solid on the endplate. Well they do flex a little from in and out with your 1/4" in. But that's normal.
If a pickup goes bad, they stay bad. I think anyway!
But this happens to both necks. I sorta of think it's some kind of interfernce from hell right now.
So I am clueless. I will ask Scotty's to get me a new switch from Excel i guess. But since I can't get it do it at home yet, I cannot pinpoint it. I can't get into it on the gig either when it occurs. But this thought crossed my mind. To have my the guys in the band hold it upside down when this starts up. And I can poke around underneath with a meter.
Maybe I'll invent a hoist like they use for bikes and cars? I used to me a Mr.Goodwrench! LOL
Thanks guys! Anymore thought's on this will be greatly appreciated!!

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Oct 2009 12:14 pm

Do you use a different cable for tuning, or do you use the one that goes direct into your volume pedal?

Stewart Campbell · Post by **Stewart Campbell** » 19 Oct 2009 1:48 pm

Hi all.
I have had the same problem with my tuner, and I traced the reason for the eratic display of the needle to a magnetic field from equipment transformer, ie. switch off amp. etc. and the reading becomes stable.Hope this helps.

Stewart Campbell.

Tony Kotula · Post by **Tony Kotula** » 19 Oct 2009 1:51 pm

Hi Bob, I use a different cable for my tuning. I have 3 on hand to choose from. They all react the same. Even the one for my v.pedal too.
What's freaking me out on top of this is, when it occurs I can plug my Tele into the same tuner and it will tune like nothings wrong. Then go right back to the steel and it's beserk again!
Then after a set or 2, I will check it to see if it still in the twilight zone and it will fine! Like nothing was ever wrong! Intermittent tuners blues! I feel a song coming on here! Where's my pen and paper?
Thanks Bob!
Hey! Do you want more pic's from the I.S.G.C.?
I can send you a picture disc if you like? Or maybe I can email you some in a zipped file. I have over 300! I can send 'em zipped but just so many at a time. Zipped file will compress a ton of pics for email! here's one of Billy Robinson and Duke Dumas!

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 19 Oct 2009 2:17 pm

That happens to me when I tune up before the gig and there is no other music going on and everything works fine with the tuner but when it gets to the break and other music is going on then this fluctuation happens with my PSG but not as much with my 6 string.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 19 Oct 2009 3:25 pm

I have a suspicion that the source of your problem isn't in your equipment. It seems to me that you're a victim of some exterior influence...like some magnetic field that becomes active late in the evening.

Are there any buildings close by that might run large machines, or generators? Or maybe a radio station, or a ham radio operator?

Remember, your guitar's pickup is just that.....a magnetic pickup.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 19 Oct 2009 4:38 pm

Does your steel have a single coil pickup? Electromagnetic fields from lights with dimmers or other electrical equipment in (or near) the building are picked up by a single coil and can make tuners unusable -- the tuner "hears" a white noise hum composed of many different frequencies, and freaks out. That's why I switched to a humbucker on my new Williams even though I loved the single coil sound. Solved the problem completely. I had bought a new tuner and new batteries and all that...

Telecaster probably also has single coil pickups, but they are less sensitive than steel pickups? Good luck -- it can be maddening!

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 19 Oct 2009 5:53 pm

A simple question that hasn't been asked, are you dampening all the strings except the one you're tuning at the time ?

Tuners are very erotic when there's more than one source of excitement.. i.e. more than one string vibrating simultaneously..

Tony Kotula · Post by **Tony Kotula** » 19 Oct 2009 9:12 pm

HELLO TO ALL! AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR IDEAS AS TO WHAT CAN CAUSE THIS. SO FAR, I JUST REMOVED THE INPUT JACK TO CLEAN IT BETTER THAN TRYING TO GET TO CONTACT POINTS TO CLEAN WITH AN EMERY BOARD/FINE SANDPAPER.
AND ONE WIRE JUST LITERALLY FELL OFF WITHOUT ANY HELP.
I CAREFULLY ROMOVED THE JACK FROM THE END PLATE AND IT WAS OFF. SO NOW I AM HAVE TO WITH THAT IT WAS SOLDER CONNECTION THAT WENT BAD? ALTHOUGH WHEN I FIRST CHECKED THEM ALL LAST WEEK, EVERYTHING LOOKED TIGHT. BUT NOW I AM THINKING THE REASON IT DID NOT FALL OFF IS BECAUSE THE JACK WAS TIGHT INTO THE ENDPLATE. AND THE WIRE WAS'NT GOING TO MOVE. THE MINUTE I TOUCHED THAT LOOSE JACK, IT CAME OFF. THE GUITAR IS 12 YRS OLD.
SO I WILL REPLACE THE JACK. AND SEE HOW IT GOES THIS WEEKEND. I GUESS ALL AINT WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE!!
THIS ALSO EXPLAINS WHY MY GUITAR TUNED UP OK TOO.
BUT I COULD NEVER GET THIS PROBLEM TO OCCUR AT HOME. SO I AM NOT GOING TO RULE OUT OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE JUST YET.

I'LL SEE HOW IT GOES THIS WEEKEND. AND POST MY FINDINGS!THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 20 Oct 2009 4:11 am

Basil - Please explain what you mean by:

Tuners are very erotic when there's more than one source of excitement.. i.e. more than one string vibrating simultaneously..

Erotic?????

Remember, this is a family forum...

Lee

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 20 Oct 2009 4:58 am

Lee it WAS a 'PUN' Erotic-excitement-vibrating simultaneously..

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 20 Oct 2009 7:10 am