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Topic: Thinking of going all pull |
David Mullis
From:
Rock Hill, SC
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 11:37 am |
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Well, I never thought I would ever consider selling my push pull but I've been playing with the idea for a year or so. It's not that I don't like this guitar because I've been playing it for 9 years now but I guess I've just got the urge to move on to something else. I'm thinking maybe a Mullen or Zum. I'm concerned that if I sell the Emmons, I'll regret it from now on. Unfortunately keeping the Emmons and buying a 2nd steel is not an option at least for the forseeable future. Any thoughts, ideas, or opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks
David |
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Sonny Priddy
From:
Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 11:54 am steels
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| You Can't Go Wrong With Mullen or Zum. SONNY. |
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Jeff Evans
From:
Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 12:07 pm
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| Quote: |
| . . . keeping the Emmons and buying a 2nd steel is not an option . . . |
Maybe someone would swap with you for awhile on a trial basis. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 12:11 pm
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All steel players do it, but usually only once.
I'm talking about 'The Classic Mistake' |
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David Mullis
From:
Rock Hill, SC
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 12:13 pm
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| That's a heck of an idea Jeff! I do have one other option that I hadn't considered. I could sell the motorcycle. I bought it mainly to run service calls on last summer when gas was so expensive. Now that I'm doing commercial stuff where I have to carry a ladder and boxes of cable, the bike won't work anyway.I do like the trial basis idea. That way both parties could be sure they're happy. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 12:16 pm
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You can always find another all pull guitar for a reasonable price. Can you say the same regarding push-pulls?
What is an all pull guitar going to give you that a push-pull doesn't?
My biggest regret concerning the buying and selling of PSGs is that I didn't buy a push-pull much earlier. |
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Jack Dougherty
From:
Spring Hill, Florida, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 4:51 pm
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David...
This story may or may not be relevent....
I had a tricked out Tele (1967)
Sold it in 1972. Never saw it again. BIG Mistake!!!!!
Wish I had it back 
I have a Zum and a PP. Find a way to keep the PP.
I was a one guitar man for many years. I added the PP
and just bit the bullet. The pain of two guitars
will pass. Don't know what your personal situation
is but find a way. 
_________________
There is no such thing as too many steels!!
Emmons P/P 8/7 Strings....whatever I have.....Picks..mixed...Bars...one of four..but I like the Bullet Bar
Walker Stereo Steel Amp
TC M1 XL
Peavey Nashville 400. Fox Mod
Various sundries and toys.. |
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David Mullis
From:
Rock Hill, SC
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 6:24 pm
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| I think I may do just that. I just posted the bike up on craigslist. I haven't rode all that much this year anyway and besides, playing steel is much safer LOL. |
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Jim Park
From:
Carson City, Nv
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 7:35 pm PP or All Pull
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| I switched from a PP to an all pull Fessenden about 2 years ago and I havent looked back. The guitar is easy to try different pulls on, and plays like butter. I kept the push pull and even had Jim Palenscar go through it and refurb it after I abused it for the better part of 20 years........ The only attachment is emotional as this guitar helped feed my kids when they were little. Duane Brown in Reno did the same thing.He was playing a 68 PP then went to an SKH LeGrande, and now has a all pull Zum. Both our A/P guitars sound good......I wouldn't mind trading my PP for a Zum.Anyway my $.10 worth Jim |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 3 Sep 2009 9:04 pm
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David, if you like the Emmons p/p, don't sell it. You WILL regret it. Especially since more and more folks are buying them up and keeping them forever. Zums and Mullins are great instruments and both are easily acquired. A good deal on either can be had on any given day. The Emmons p/p, on the other hand is becoming more rare and valuable all the time, and with good reason. They sound fabulous, and when well adjusted and maintained, they are probably the best guitar around, within the limits of their design. But I don't need to tell you that, you own one, 
My first steel was an Emmons p/p S10. I had it for about 8 years and decided to sell it for for a full-dress S14 universal e9/b6 guitar. While I really liked the universal alot, I missed the sound of the push pull more. After about another 10 years of regretting selling the Emmons "Original" I bought an S12 universal p/p. It was like coming back home. Then, about a year later, I bought my dream guitar: an Emmons D10, lacquer-body p/p. I'm back down to one guitar - the Emmons D10 p/p. I'm totally satisfied and not afraid to say it, that guitar is the last PSG I'll ever own.
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2009 6:09 am going all pull
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| I played a 78' push pull for twenty years and from time to time would try the new all pull guitars none of which I liked. A friend had an Emmons Legrande that I tried and that changed my mind. I loved the pp c6th sound, and the PP has a definite edge tone wise over other brands, but once I started playing the newer, in this case, a Legrande III, I stopped using the Push Pull. It just sat in the case. The most noticable difference was the use of the "C" pedal. I never could get that adjusted on the P/P so I used other pedal combinations to get that sound mostly using the F lever 4th string and 3rd string no pedal. I tried selling it at Chubby Howard's steel show and eneded up getting my asking price as a down payment for a Mullen G2. I've had a few people tell me I will regret selling the P/P but I don' see it happening. Don D. |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 4 Sep 2009 8:37 am
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| Quote: |
| The most noticable difference was the use of the "C" pedal. I never could get that adjusted on the P/P so I used other pedal combinations to get that sound mostly using the F lever 4th string and 3rd string no pedal. |
Don, which change were/are you having a problem with? As you are probably familiar with the changer tuning hierarchies (greatest raises are tuned at the keyhead, greatest lowers at the top row of endplate screws), you know that the C-pedal, 4th string E to F# change is tuned at the keyhead. However, with the C-pedal, 5th string B to C# change there is an under carriage tuner involved. On most push/pulls that adjusting nut is at the C-pedal/5th string bell crank. It may also be on the A-pedal/5th string bell crank. Or in some cases (Herb Steiner may be able to verify this) there is no adjuster at all.
If there is an under carriage adjuster, tune the pedal change without the adjuster, first. Then go back and press the pedal that activates the bell crank with the adjuster. While the pedal is depressed rotate the adjuster, one way or the other until proper pitch is achieved.
If there isn't an adjuster, and you don't want to have one installed, you'll have to carefully set the stop collars on the pull rods which active the B to C# bell cranks, for both pedals until they each pull that change exactly the same. There again, I believe Herb Steiner's p/p is setup this way. Is that right, Herb?
Deleted comments because I'm not really sure how you're using the alternate F knee lever.
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2009 10:48 am
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| Well Glenn you pretty much summed it up. My problem was with the interaction of the three movements of the 4th string; f lever raise, E lever lower, and C pedal whole tone raise. The last time I had it worked on the C pedal was OK but the E lower was a problem. Long story short, I came to the conclusion that the Emmons P/P was akin to a volks wagon in that the most enjoyment received in using one was gained by folks who were used to and had the ability to make adjustments to them. Like I said I bought the instrument new and used it for years. Ijust avioded using the C pedal and everything was fine. My alternate use of the F pedal gave me 2/3rds of the BC pedal combination. Example; strings 3 and 4 open at fret 3 to fret 4 with the F raise. Don D. |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 4 Sep 2009 11:13 am
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Don, do you still have the Emmons? If you do, don't give up on it, yet.
You say your 4th string E changes are your biggest problem. Have you or anyone else (to your knowledge) done any adjustments to the pedal/kneelever changes, other than at the endplate or key head? If not, correcting the problem might be relatively simple (relatively is the key word).
Tune your 4th string to open pitch, at the key head. Then tune your C-pedal F# change at the key head (I advise depressing your B pedal also, to factor in cabinet drop while tuning that change). Once that change is to pitch, retune your 4th string open pitch at the corresponding bottom-row screw, at the endplate. Once that is to pitch, activate your D lever (and depress your B pedal for the reason I stated earlier). Tune the E to Eb change at the corresponding top-row endplate screw. If you're able to get these two changes to work and your open pitch is still E, you've got most of the battle won.
Next, tune your F lever: Look under the guitar and find the bell crank tuner for that knee lever's bellcrank. Activate that lever (and depress your A pedal for the reason I stated earlier). With the knee lever and pedal engaged, rotate that tuner one way or the other until your proper pitch is achieved. Once you have that change to pitch you should have the problem licked.
If that doesn't work for you, you might need to have the return tension springs adjusted, or the stop collars on the pull and or push rods adjusted. Also, the positive stops on the cabinet at the changer, and at the cabinet rail for the pedal rods may not be making positive contact. At which point, if you aren't up to the challenge of fixing those problems, you might want to have a push/pull mechanic correct the problem.
Bottom line is, and you've heard it before, a well adjusted and maintained p/p will not let you down, as a great sounding and performing guitar.
Best of luck with your guitar needs,
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Hook Moore
From:
South Charleston,West Virginia
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Mike Archer
From:
church hill tn
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Posted 4 Sep 2009 12:22 pm pps
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I wont sell or trade my pp emmons sd-10
I would like to have another all pull
BUT I wont let my pp go its just to good of a steel to part with mine is set up well
and I dont have any problems at all with it
pps are getting hard to find every day
keep your pp and buy another all pull
is my vote but its up to you
good luck Mike |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 4 Sep 2009 12:22 pm
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David, go with a newer modern guitar. Your back will thank you.
Hook |
...and the guy with two back surgeries in his past sez, "Now he tells Me !!!!"  
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Hook Moore
From:
South Charleston,West Virginia
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 4 Sep 2009 12:56 pm
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Hey, Hook, let's get together and compare surgical scars.  
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Randy Gilliam
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2009 1:40 pm Guitars
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Glenn The Mullens Are Pretty Easy To Find, The Zums Are Real Hard To Get and When You Play one You Will See Why, Randy Gilliam.(Keep The PP ) If You Can!
Last edited by Randy Gilliam on 18 Oct 2009 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hook Moore
From:
South Charleston,West Virginia
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2009 8:34 am
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| Glenn, the P/P went to Herby Wallace on a down payment for a D10 Mullen G2. He sold it to someone in WI. or Minn. Your info on correcting the problem is very helpfull to anyone having trouble with the C pedal and is very clearly stated. Don D. |
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W. C. Edgar
From:
Iowa City Iowa, Madison CT, Nashville, Austin, Phoenix, Nashville
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Posted 8 Sep 2009 10:16 pm
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Nothing like being on the road with an artist and taking your guitar off the bus opening the case and finding a couple brass collars lying in the underneath side of the guitar. Only to find out you don't have your A pedal anymore. Tone, sure they have em but the whole system has to have so much travel to work correctly they sound like a thrashing machine on a quiet stage. I'll take an all pull anyday and get my tone from my attack and technique.
But, some guys still drive Ramblers also.
I've had 2 1966 D-10 Black Bolt ons.
WC Edgar
www.wcedgar.com
www.myspace.com/wcedgar |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Larry Moore
From:
Hampton, Ga. USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2009 4:45 am
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David, I have 4 Steel Guitars 2 Emmons PP both 1967 1 D-10 8-5, 1 S-10 3-4
I have 1 D-10 Emmons LeGrande II 8-5 , 1 SD-10 Derby 3-5
I can do the same on the PP as the All Pull, you just have do it a little different.
I would not sell my PP. They don't make them anymore you would have to find one and rebuild or pay the big bucks for one setup and looks good
Just my thoughts
Larry |
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