How Not To Be A "Copy Band"

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

I've had guys I've worked with ask me what to do to break out of the "copy band" mode, and be respected as more than a honky-tonk weekend warrior act, when they don't have original tunes to play. The have to play standards in order to get gigs and draw a crowd.

I've told them this: If you think you're a copy band, then you're a copy band. If you feel your only function at the gig is one of a human juke box, you genreally will receive respect only slightly higher than that of a mechanical juke box.

It's the difference between being a musician and an entertainer.

A band doesn't need original songs. It only needs good songs. The originality will come with the performance of the song, and the way the song is presented to the audience. How the song and its new interpretation is "sold" to the crowd, as it were.

It's our responsibility to ourselves as performers to see value in what we do, and to appreciate the difference between our performances and the original recordings.

Let me ask you this: How many times have you seen a band perform, or listened to your front man address the crowd, and the only thing that gets said to the audience... if they're even listening... is "here's a Ray Price song," or "here's a George Strait song."

That's it?!? That's all you can say about a song? That's no more information than what is printed on the little label next to the number on the jukebox list.

Two things happen when a song is presented like that. First, the band is comparing itself to the original recording, and it's gonna lose the comparison, because by definition you won't be as "good" as the original; and secondly, the band is revealing they've got nothing at all to say about the song or its meaning, or giving the audience any reason at all to pay attention to the performance.

Songs have stories to tell, stories that people relate to their personal lives... that's why the song was a hit for a great many tunes. A good performer, one with stagecraft, will have the confidence to talk to the crowd and force them to listen to what he has to say. When you assume you're saying something of value, people will recognize that and pay attention.

When you say to the audience "ladies and gentlemen, our next song is about a man going through the agony of adultery and divorce. Maybe some of y'all have experienced what this man is feeling. Pay attention to the lyrics of the song as we present our version of the country music classic "The Other Woman," you're involving the audience on an intellectual level and not just being musical wallpaper.

The performer is assuming what he's saying is of interest to the crowd, that they're listening to him, and he's inviting them to get involved with the performance of the song. He's showing them his personality, revealing a part of himself and his humanity to the listeners.

Most importantly, the band that does these things takes ownership of the performance. This band presents its own version of the song, not Ray Price's, or George Strait's version. It gives the audience a reason to pay attention.

It's showing the people a different and unique interpretation of song, and therefore worthy of a serious listen.

Yes, it takes confidence in yourselves to do these things. It takes resilience to come back with the gift of gab if you're being ignored, like you will be from time to time. It's okay. People will respect your performances because they're now involved with you and feel as though you want to be involved with them.

Incidentally, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Barbra Streisand, Sammy Davis Jr., Linda Ronstadt, and Ray Price never wrote a song. They were interpreters and no one ever called them "cover" artists.

But for God's sake, if all you can say about a song is "here's a (fill in the original singer's name) song," shut up and just play the damn thing and don't set up a comparison that you're gonna get the short end of the stick out of.
_________________
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Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Ben Lawson · From: Brooksville Florida

Another good post Herb. I play in two bands regularly and fill in with a few more from time to time. One band is a human juke box with very little explanation of the nature of the song. The other is a tribute band that heavily favors John Hughey music. I enjoy the latter more than the former. If there is a signature lick in a song I try to get it right but I would never be so vain as to think I could play as well as Papa John.
We have twin fiddles in the first band as well as keyboard, steel, lead, rhythm, bass, drums, three female singers and the band leaders vocals. Sometimes there are only very small holes to fill with a steel lick so I try to make it mine and I don't usually play what was originally recorded.
The tribute band doesn't have any fiddles so there are more "holes" and it's easier to stretch out a little.
You guys in Texas have a lot of great bands that have different versions of "cover" songs as well as originals. I would really enjoy playing with Jake Hooker, Bobby Flores, Curtis Potter, Johnny Bush and many more. When we do a song that I've heard from one of those great singers I try to imagine myself playing behind them.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Herb, not really sure what you are saying. If we are playing in a Bar Band, playing covers of whatever, Merle, Jones,Clapton, Paisley, Eagles etc...are you stating that we should not play it like the 'cover" or something close to it ? I certainy agree that a band should not announce each song with the original artist, that would be a bust of a dumb thing, but I also can't imagine playing in a cover band, which I do, and not playing signature licks or phrases which are part of the "cover" song. have we ever been to club and heard the local band play Peaceful Easy Feeling and the guitar player played his own version of probably one of the most famous guitars solos' of all time ?

Lets talk Workin' Man Blues, sure jam and play our own speed interpretation, but SOMEONE has to play the stock signature Nichols solo at some point to bring the song back to the "cover".

I certainly understand the Sinatra, Rhonstadt, Streisand analogy, but they are artists in their own right, people specifically went to see them and paid the big bucks. People who go out on the weekend I am thinking pretty much go to the local Gin Mill to knock down a few and kick back for the night . I think if the band is playing Wonderful Tonight or Coccain..it better sound like Wonderful Tonight or Coccain and if the band has players that can't play those songs to a point of recognizing the music then they shouldn't be in a cover band.

Interpretation is one thing, playing a well known song at a venue where it is basically about the "set list " without the signature representation is quite another.

We , as bandstand players should be able to do both and know when to execute both.

What happens when the singer looks at the Steel guy and says, kick off Swinging Doors kinda like Merle'e version...and he can't ?

OR , if we are lucky enough to being playing with some really savvy kats and they want to play Sinatra's NY NY, someone's gotta play that vamp...and yes, Sinatra didn't write that song but he sure has the worlds top version of it !

Of course, in each song, we should also add our own style into it without stepping on the song, I think that is a given.

Just my take...

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

Anyone know how many artist recorded "Tennessee Waltz" within the first year of its debut? I dont remember two of them being the same arrangement.

David Collins · From: Madison, North Carolina, USA

I think that Herb and Tony are both right!

Admittedly, my primary venue is different as I play mostly Christian Music in Church Services and other Christian events, I do think that it is important for the listener to be able to recognize the song.

We do our version of Awesome God. A very popular Christian song that has been covered by several of the contemporary Christian "hit makers". While our version is decidedly different from any you've heard on the Christian radio stations, it is recognizable within the first few beats.

As the leader of the group, and the one who selects and arranges the songs, I am constantly trying to create our own versions of popular songs, yet keep them easily recognizable. It's a very fine line at times, and can be crossed without even knowing it till it's too late if you're not careful.

Great discussion!
David
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Jack Francis · From: Queen Creek, Arizona, USA

Well said Herb....I play in a "Classic Rock" cover band and we do a pretty fair job...but there are probably 50 bands like us here in the Phoenix area.

We've been working on a new CD of our own songs to try and set ourselves apart from the "Crowd".

We hope that we can then re-visit some of the songs that we cover to get some credibility as a "BAND" not a juke box.

Good thread! Cool

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Tony
Certainly there are signature licks that have to be performed to give the song its character. Really I didn't speak to the individual performances of the song or how close to the original it is in terms of licks. I personally enjoy the signature licks in appropriate places, but not so far as to be a slavish total recreation of the original, note-for-note.

Rather, I was referring to how the song is presented to the audience in between song performances. Do the listeners have to know that a song is by a particular artist for them to enjoy it? Is that the only relevant factor to tell the audience? I don't believe so. I think that if they're told by the performer why they should pay attention to the song, the audience will be more engaged with the band and have a different attitude about the band when increased communication takes place.

Here's an example. One of my regular gigs is in a swing band that started as country and western swing but has morphed into a band doing half western swing and half material by Sinatra, Nat Cole, Bobby Darin, and tunes from the Great American Songbook. We have a great sax/trumpet horn section, a jazz fiddler that doubles on sax, yours truly on C6 steel guitar, and generally Buzz Evans or Redd Volkaert on guitar. In other words, good players. Wink

We got a gig for a Friday night at the main country dance hall in Austin, the place for the traditional bands in the area. Our bandleader felt that we should tone down the Sinatra-type material since the audience might have a prejudice against that stuff. My opinion was this: the songs are great music, come from a wonderful era of songwriting, we do the Nelson Riddle/Billy May charts, and the stuff is perfect for people to dance to. Just don't announce the tunes as "here's a Frank Sinatra tune."

He took my advice and took ownership of the songs. The people weren't told who was the original artist of the song, only that this is OUR version. The dance floor was packed the entire night, people loved the horn section, there was plenty steel and fiddle, and nary a complaint like "that ain't country" was heard.

On the country side of things, I've worked with both Justin Trevino and Dale Watson. They don't tell the audience who's song they're singing, or whether they wrote it or someone else did. They just perform the song and reinforce their OWN artistry.

It's about the verbal presentation, more than the performance, is what I've taken way too many words to express. Smile

_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

Very good points raised here, both Herb and Tony. I think there should be a differentation made between a
show band and a bar band. Bar bands don't have nearly as much latitude with originality, but it can be done. You just have to put your audience on familiar ground to get them with you and then you can take them where you want to go as long as you keep bringing them back. There is almost as much notoriety to be gained by playing a great obscure song as an original.
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Jon Irsik · From: Wichita, KS USA

These are great points. The bands I've been in took both routes....we did our own arrangement of a song like "Wine Me Up" with the Faron Young version as a reference. It gradually became our arrangement over a period of time.

Then we did songs like "Amarillo By Morning" that were radio staples as close as possible to the original version.

I heratily agree that you have to engage the audience in your music by talking to them, but you can also engage them by looking at them. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a bar band that not only didn't talk, but looked at their instrument or the floor or carried on a conversation with the other musicians. Look at your crowd, smile and have fun - whether you are or not. People want in on fun times and if you look like you're having a good time it draws people in to what you're doing.

Jon

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

What I'm really geting out of this thread is not so much wheather your in a cover band or not, but rather, can your frontman connect with the audience. And maybe that says alot about the needs in my area. I certainly do not pretend to play the level or caliber that most players on this thread do, but to me, it takes a knack to read a crowd and "settle in" with them. That "knack" is what makes a frontman a good frontman. Generally, the less said, the more the crowd connects with us. People tend to get off the dance floor when the front man begins talking instead of playing. On the other hand, I have seen a song finish up and people begin to leave the dance floor, but change their minds and keep dancing when we drop right into "Waltz Across Texas", for instance.

I played in a band one time when the frontman couldn't shut up. Soon the crowd memorised his dumb stories and jokes and stopped coming. We called his "air time" deadtime. And we were right---we eventually died as a band.

Being a good front man takes a knack.

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

Right, James, it's in reading your crowd. For a bar
band, a rigid set list is an obstacle. The size and
mood of your audience is ever changing and you have to "feel" what will work and what doesn't. What puts
everyone on the floor one night will just get you indifference on another.
_________________
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

Good post Herb. On a related note (C#) here's some of my favorite non-copy band song intros by Faron.

"Here's a song I hated, but those GD Jews in NY City made me record it anyway. After a while I got to likin' it. 'Goin' Steady'."

"Everybody thinks this is a Patsy Cline song, but it's been a number one song by four different artists. Here's the original edition of 'Sweet Dreams'. Young un's..." (cue to play the intro.)

"You!" Staggering and pointing at someone in the band. "Kick it off!" (Could be any song in the world, gotta guess, just make a noise.)
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Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Faron always did have his own unique take on "artistic stagecraft," didn't he?

As I recall back in the 80's, his claim of being a Tennessee law enforcement officer was met with... uh... skepticism, shall we say?... by certain Travis County Sheriff's deputies. Go figure, Laughing

_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

He had honorary badges from various sheriff depts. around the country. I remember that night in Austin - he rammed the bus with his rental car trying to get us to stop so he could get a pair of boots out of his stateroom. Then we got busted. He settled the score by doing some sort of free gig at a later date, mighta been "Austin City Limits". Typical Faron Young, he could BS and charm his way out of any hole he'd dug himself into. Well... except the hole he's in now.
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Me: Steel Guitar Madness
Latest ebook: Steel Guitar Insanity
Custom Made Covers for Steel Guitars & Amps at Sharp Covers Nashville

Jim Lindsey (Louisiana) · From: Greenwell Springs, Louisiana (deceased)

What a great post, Herb. I agree fully.

When I was actively playing in bands, I was always fortunate to work with groups who enjoyed creative license in playing cover tunes. We'd play the songs close enough to the record to lend a sense of familiarity to the crowd, but we'd expound on the songs (even signature licks) and put our own inflexions to the songs. It made it fun for both the band and the audience. Smile

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Chris Schlotzhauer · From: Colleyville, Tx. USA

Herb, the problem is this IMO. Let's take Austin for example. You and I know the same "A" players that play around town. They play almost every night with someone different, with different front men/women. They work the same clubs, Ginny's, Spoke, CC, etc, and a lot of them cover the same tunes. They all have the Austin way to play "Wine Me Up" and "Milk Cow Blues". From that point on, I agree, it is up to a good person fronting the band to pull off something different with those tunes.
Now bands like Cornell, Dale, Miss Leslie, Heybale have the luxury of a consistent band they have trained.
Cornell's version of MCB is something totally different and refreshing. Same with Dale's version of Jukebox Charlie.
That's what drives me crazy about Ft Worth. Same thing. Same players, songs, joints, different front man. I can go into Pearls to listen to a friend on steel, when really the only thing that changed from the night before is the front man. I glaze over in ten minutes and I have to go. So really, the only time I like to go is when "bands" like the aforementioned are playing.

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

Same deal in Nashville, Chris. When I used to work Lower Broad on a regular basis there was a pool of musicians who gathered together in various configurations at different clubs and played the same songs, often with the same stock arrangements. Which makes it refreshing to go see Don Kelley or John England or the Time Jumpers, who have actual rehearsed and arranged bands.
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Me: Steel Guitar Madness
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Custom Made Covers for Steel Guitars & Amps at Sharp Covers Nashville

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Another aspect of this is that often audience members in places I play make a request by reference to a recording artist only! "Play some Buck!" or "How about a Ray Price tune?" (you mean, like Crazy Arms or like For the Good Times?) or (grrr!) "Skynyrd!" The one that asked for Buck will usually be happy with any song they recognize as having been recorded by Buck. If that's the way the audience connects with the music, it makes some sense to announce it that way.
On the other hand, I've never been one that believed in trying to play 'em just like the record! (signature licks excepted, of course)

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Brint
I'm reminded of the heyday in the 70's when Ray Wylie Hubbard's unintentional anthem Up Against The Wall, Redneck Mother was so popular. It was the song universally hated by bands until the Steve Goodman's unintentional anthem You Never Even Called Me By My Name was dubiously made a hit by David Allen Coe.

Anyway, the Ray Hubbard song was so often requested Alex Harvey wrote a tune entitled If You Want To Hear Redneck Mother (You Can Sing The Sonofabitch Yourself).
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Tommy Shown · From: Denham Springs, La.

Your message hit home with me Herb, back int the early to mid 90's I had the opportunity to play in a Merle Haggard Cover band.Ever single song on the list was Haggard.Please don't get me wrong. I love the Hag just as mcuh as the next guy. I think he is a giant in Country Music. The guys in the band and would sometimes talk to the leader about it. We would tell him that we would never get anywhere being a Haggard cover band, that we need more variety of material. Well to say the least, we broke up after that. I tried to go out on my own as a writer, performer and sideman. You have made some great points. As usual, Herb. I think on the list we might have had maybe two or three songs that were not from Haggard. In order to break the monotny up in the gig, i would get up and do few from others (i.e.) Strait,Bob Wills to help things out. I then tried my hand at writing and have found out that I am pretty decant at it. In 2003, I took the Honorable Mention award in the John Lennon Song writhing Contest. And the song I wrote was pulled to recorded by a local girl, whom was making her first album. The song made it all the way to the final cut,when the producer dropped it for a ballad.
To make it that far was just unbelieveable, for me. ME trying to go out on my own was just what I needed
Thank you Herb once again.
Tommy Shown

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

here's another way to avoid the problem: don't copy anyone!

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I basically agree with what Herb is saying. I have never played for any length of time with a band that tried to copy everything note for note - but I really came originally from a blues tradition where that would be frowned upon and improvisation was expected. For a long time, I had great trouble understanding why cover bands tried to slavishly copy everything.

Still - I think that sometimes it's fun to occasionally try to recreate something great from the past. It can be very challenging and sometimes very interesting when it's done faithfully as a demonstration of respect or love for an earlier performer or style.

I also think that, to some extent, this whole issue depends, in part, on what a particular producer or audience member expects. I've run into people that really expect something close to a band-jukebox, and consider that if you don't do it like the original, it's because you're not capable of doing it. Back when I was playing full-time, I had an interview with the university newspaper where I tried to counter the reporter's impression that all interpreted music was a "cover", and somehow intrinsically inferior to the the music of "original" bands.

Generally, I prefer to deal with people who are OK with me being me. But another situation would be a theatrical show where the goal is to make the music historically authentic, and that can be a legitimate goal. A classical orchestra, and some big-band orchestras, often play completely arranged music down to the note. But even in this situation, it can be exciting - some performers can squeeze real individuality out of the same written notes by their own virtuosic flair, a mark of true greatness to me.

On naming tunes before they're played - we sometimes want to bring exposure to music that a crowd is not familiar with, and thus will sometimes explain where a tune comes from. Some of you may find it incongruous that an audience might not know anything about people like Ray Price or Carl Smith, but I am sometimes in that situation. Especially some younger audiences have never heard of such people or their music, and such songs might sometimes even be assumed to be our own originals if we didn't set the record straight. Sometimes, I've played with people who played this kind of music to people who were convinced, for example, that they didn't like country music, and only explained after they had fully accepted it, to responses like, "That doesn't sound like any kind of country music I've ever heard." Smile

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