The Steel Guitar Forum

Please give me your opinion on Windows vs Linux. I understand that using Windows has the advantage of having lthousands of programs to interface with. What infrastructure exist for the support of Linux? Is the Linux Operating System compatible with many of the Windows Compatible third party program? Is the Linux system fairly easily supported by the average user? How robust is the Linux user groups and are they open to helping those of us that are just stepping into the Linus world? Are they as friendly and opens as the people on the Forum?

There is a huge online Linux community with forums, sites and all kinds of online help. You could start here: http://www.linux.org/
The downside for me using Linux is that I'm a big Photoshop and Dreamweaver user, and the last time I used Linux (which has been quite a while) they wouldn't run on Linux. Might be different now; there's an app call Wine that lets you run some Windows apps. But everything else I wanted to do on Linux worked fine, once I got Flash, .mp3 and a few other things working. I would certainly recommend it over Windows - much more secure from online threats and more configurable. The conundrum with Linux is deciding which version to use, but they're free, and they can run from a CD, so you can try out a bunch of them. Download the .iso, burn it to a CD and boot your comp.

Robert Harper wrote: What infrastructure exist for the support of Linux?

Linux users tend to be fanatic about helping each other so there is lots of support online. For example there is http://ubuntuforums.org/ for Ubuntu which I use.

Advantages of Linux: it is free, and runs well on old machines that cannot handle the newer Windows versions.

Disadvantages: If you have a pro audio A/D interface, there may or may not be Linux drivers for it, so you might not be able to do your sound recording & editing.

Linux is a geeky operating system. I do not recommend Linux, in its present state, for newbies to computer usage. Learn the basics and advanced techniques on a Windows computer that is well secured, then move up to other operating systems.

Linux is an absolutely fabulous operating system. That's easy for me to say as I've been in this field since the early 1980's when SCO Xenix was first introduced. I am not a Windoze guy... and Wiz is correct in his thought process... but it's getting closer to how Windoz works all the time.

Just to let you know how well Linux is used in the real world... it's in most Doctors offices, most Hotels, most Restaurants, most Hardware stores, all branches of the Military, in most of the largest retail chains in the US. The list goes on. Keep in mind that Linux is typically in the background with chores such as networking, backup, crash recovery, mail servers, printers, etc. Windoz is typically on the front end where the non-technical person is dealing with data entry and querying for information, word processing, etc.

As a hard core Linux user, the main negative would be backwards compatibility. Most, if not all flavors of Linux come out with a new release and do not take the time to see if applications from their previous release are compatible with vertical apps (databases, etc). Heck... a command as simple (and widely used) as echo caused severe havoc when a newer release changed the flags (features) of this mandatory command.

I still like Linux and use it everyday.

PS: Apple MACS run on FreeBSD, a Linux based OS.

$.02

Jeff, I had some Xenix floppies in my mitts the other day. I'd rather not get into why

Also it's a small quibble but OS X isn't Linux-based, it's Unix (as of version 10.5). There's more on what and who defines Unix here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification
Also it uses the Mach kernel rather than the Linux kernel.


Anyway like Wiz said, Linux might be tough for someone who's only ever used Windows and is not specifically looking to learn something new. But if you do want to learn something new, there's no reason not to give it a shot.

Download the Ubuntu live CD, then burn it and boot from it. You can play around in it without installing anything. It's pretty straightforward for most tasks and comes with most of the software you need.

Alternately you can install the free VMware player: http://www.vmware.com/products/player/
and then download an Ubuntu VM here: http://vmplanet.net/node/95

If you don't know what VMware does, you have a program and inside of it there is another whole machine (in software) and you run another OS on that machine. Like in this pic:
http://www.vmware.com/files/images/prod ... _large.png

Also I consider the repository approach to software installation to be much easier than Windows installer & uninstaller programs. You basically have a big list of what's available, and you check it off if you want it, uncheck if you want to get rid of it. Obviously it gets more involved if what you want isn't in the repository but for most things it's that simple.

While I am by no means an expert, I have been i computers since the early 70s and I don't believe that I would have too much difficulty learning Linux, except for my ADHD. To get around that personality trait. I seem to remember that a disk can be formatted into different section. Is there a method to put windows on one formatted section of the disk and Linux on another and then boot between the two, This would give me an outlet for when I wanted to play and experiment and another when I wanted be a little more productive, if I ever am productive

Robert Harper wrote: Is there a method to put windows on one formatted section of the disk and Linux on another and then boot between the two,

Yes, that's what most people do. The Linux disk partitioner with point-and-click user interface is called GParted and it is part of the CD that you will burn after you download a Linux package. To install Linux, you boot from that CD, and it will lead you thru all the choices.
However, before you install Linux on you hard disk, you should probably boot Linux from the CD a few times, just to check it out.

Thanks gfor your time and information. I have yet to pick a computer to by, but your information has answered a lot of the question I wanted to know.

John Cipriano wrote:Jeff, I had some Xenix floppies in my mitts the other day. I'd rather not get into why :)

John,

The Smithsonian Institute has a place for them, especially if they're 5.25 floppies :-) I don't know if they would put them in the technology wing, or the dinosaur wing.

I'm very familiar with VMware. It's found a very useful nitch it today's mix and match of OS's. I didn't bring it up, as this is the PSG forum. Didn't want to confuse to many pickers :-)

What is VMware?

Robert,

Click on Johns links above.

Thanks again

Hope I'm not too late to this party.

Linux has progressed enough in the past few years that it's now ready for non-geek users. If you select a distribution intended for non-tech users, you'll be safe while learning the ropes. I recommend Ubuntu. See if you can find someone to help - a friend who already is familiar with Linux.

It's possible to set up your computer with both Linux and Windows, and you can select which to use at boot-up time. It's not difficult to do, but also it's easy to make a mistake and cause big problems. So having someone to help is a good idea.

Once you've gotten past the initial learning phase, Linux is a lot of fun, and you'll most likely find yourself learning a lot about your computer.

Good Luck!
John

I will never under any circumstances put myself in a position where I have to rely on window$ ever ever again.

This is just a rehash of what everyone else has said, but for me, 4 years on ubuntu/fedora/suse using windowsxp only for gaming, no viruses, no crashes, no lost data, as a matter of fact I can access my song files from someone else's computer, I can drag and drop songs to my mp3 player without needing bloated software, my new computers are lightning fast, my old computers are useful again as linux uses so fewer resources to do the same job. Linux is a wonderful Operating system.

I think if you still remember doing everything from a command prompt back in the 70's linux will be easy for you.

for me the easiest is UBUNTU or Mint. Next being Fedora or Open Suse, and some people are using PClinux from China as well. ARCH and Gentoo are probably the hardest to learn.

The big difficulty really comes with hardware compatibility, due to drivers being licensed for windows and mac only. This is changing very fast, and if you stick to intel and nvidea components you will have few problems.

if you load UBUNTU you can find webpages with searches like "the 10 best things to do after an ubuntu install" that will walk you through adding to the basic system.

Steve - I bet you'll agree that people who complain loudly about any of Windows' many faults usually make you chuckle, now that you no longer are held prisoner by Microsoft. The step from Windows to Linux seems like such a big deal until it's behind you.

Something that I think should be clarified is the compatibility issue you mentioned. True, some incompatibilities remain, but most people who switch to Linux will never experience them. Those difficulties arise for the folks who need to use some specialised software or hardware. For the rest of us, it's just not a big deal... everything works.

I agree with the recommendation of Ubuntu. It is a very well thought-out system, backed by a good-sized company with an admirable philosophy. It is easy to install, but I'll repeat my earlier warning: some of the terminology might be confusing, so a first-time user would benefit from having an experienced friend there to help. Failing that, a thorough examination of help pages on Ubuntu's website would be in order.

Robert Harper - yes, the Linux community has always seemed to me to be eager to help anyone new to the game. Whichever Linux distribution you choose will most likely have a forum associated with it. You've seen how people on this forum love to share their experience with others. It's like that.

Been a solid Linux user for over a year and a half now. Haven't run a Windows/Microsoft product on my home computer in all that time. As several others have said - no viruses, no malware, no spyware, no trojan horses, no crashes, et al. It just keeps on runnin' like the Energizer bunny.

George Rozak wrote:solid Linux user for over a year and a half now. ... no crashes, et al.

Linux is not perfect. There was a bug in the display manager last year that basically shut down and ended your session every few hours without warning (altho it was possible to use the keyboard to switch to another virtual terminal and maybe do something, but probably not recover what you were doing...)
But it did get fixed, and "they say" this sort of thing gets fixed faster by a worldwide army of Linux geeks than by the employees of Microsoft or Apple.

the thing is that you can recover your work as long as you backup frequently. You can resart x without rebooting the system. on Microsoft you have to reboot the whole shebang not just the graphics manager if your locked up.

I think you do need to spend some time learning how to bail out of problems in linux, but once you do you have less risk than on windows which forces you to rely on software to fix other software problems.

I would dual boot linux, start learning the command line and a text editor like vi or nano so if you end up with no graphix manager you can fix it.

I run fluxbox now as I have zero faith in point and click apps.
that was a little hairy, but worth it in the end.

John Swindle wrote:Steve - I bet you'll agree that people who complain loudly about any of Windows' many faults usually make you chuckle, now that you no longer are held prisoner by Microsoft. The step from Windows to Linux seems like such a big deal until it's behind you.

when I first switched it was a nightmare. no graphix driver,and no Internet after installs. I couldnt get on the internet to ask questions etc etc. with recent installs of ubuntu all you have to do is add flash and 3rd party repos and your golden. Quite a bit of growth in a few short years.

I understand the fear it causes, and I have seen things like wubi make a hard drive useless without a forensics guy to help out.

I have an acer aspire one netbook with both ubuntu and xp on it. My wife wanted me to leave xp on so I did. She uses ubuntu now because it is so much faster on that little computer. I imagine a smaller distro would be even faster, but I am to lazy to configure a netbook for debian or gentoo.

good luck Mr Harper and holler if you need help!

A rather technical thread on a musicians board, though, let's see what it has in common with the steel guitar...
As you might have guessed, the question which OS to use is close to religious. Same with the beginner's choice of a proper instrument to start with. There are experienced users having valuable input (mainly based on own experiences), which makes perfect sense in the one or the other context. But - although being a convinced Linux user myself - I'd say the truth is that there is no "right" choice, it's all about your personal needs and preferences and those you have to find out and define yourself, i.e. being a musician recording could be an interesting topic for you.

Probably a proper advice would be a step back making up a plain list of things you want to do with that machine. As every OS (and it's application repository) has its strengths and weaknesses you should found your decision on the actual needs. You won't be lucky if it looks/feels nice and fancy, but fails to carry out the job you want/need it to do.

One of the most important topics in IT today is security/privacy and there are a number of good reasons which would directly point to Linux just because of that. But you can set up any of the systems in a way that it's secure (to some extend) and you can use them without being afraid of being target of random attacks from the outside world. As long as you use the system with care, there will be no major risk which should be the reason not to choose the one or the other OS...

Either way you should consider setting up multiple OS just to have the opporunity of switching in case of needing a certain application which only exists on "the other OS" in that very moment - and that day will come
It's even possible to set up an Apple computer to host the native OS/X (by Apple) and add M$ Windows and any Linux you like. There are plenty articles on the net discussing in detail how this works.

The fact that you're a steel player proofs to some extend that you're not afraid to walk the "extra mile" to work things out, so now worries, you will learn and understand Linux, if you should decide to use it - and conclude that it's awesome

Hope this helps a little making "the right" choice.

I have a Local Disk F: with a capacity of 232GB.

10GBs are now being used up by C:WINDOWS and C:Program Files.

So the free space now is 222GB

I'm thinking about loading Linux on this F: drive to try it out, as this topic has piked my interest. I'm sure that I have plenty of space.

I tried to delete WINDOWS and PROGRAM FILES but I got the 'need permission rejection'.
I would want F: drive to be completely free of anything Windows. Right?

In PROPERTIES/SECURITY for Program Files (and WINDOWS) there are 3 users listed: SYSTEM, Administrators, and Users. All of them have everything but 'Special Permissions' checked off in PERMISSIONS.
So I don't understand why I'm being rejected for permission to delete WINDOWS and PROGRAM FILES from drive F:.

I hope this is not straying too far off topic, but I wouldn't want to install Linux on F: Drive until I removed WINDOWS and Program Files.

Chip... some good questions. I'm sure you'll get some answers here.

Christoph... excellent analogy. The one really big issue that windows folks like about Linux, is its not prone to viruses. I've never opened an email on Windoz unless I know for sure who its coming from. On Linux it's not something I worry about... especially when I would ignore any attachments if from an unknown source.

There are times I think that some of the Windoz anti-virus companies actually add their own virus to help sell their product.

Jeff, if a Windows folk starts "liking" something about Linux, he should by definition not be called a Windows folk any longer, what do you think?
And yes, you're right, the most secure system can most easily be compromised from the inside (proven a million times every day!), so withstand the unknown (probably the hardest lesson of all).

Chip, it's never a good idea to remove folders called "Windows" or "Program files", if you're not absolutely sure about what you're doing. And I assume those folders belong to that system you intend to keep in case you don't like Linux that much...?! So I'd recommend a different strategy, which could save you some valuable time here:

If it's just about trying out how Linux feels, you should probably download one of the many what they call "Live-Distros" (check out http://www.livecdlist.com/), burn it to a disc and then boot from that disc. A famous example is called "Knoppix", but there's something for everybodys taste. There are tons of instructions out there.

If you decide to install a Linux as a second OS then, you would have carry out two steps:
(1) Re-partition one of your discs (as mentioned earlier in that blog).
(2) Tell the installer how to set up the partitions when installing the Linux.

Most installers (the distribution's program to install Linux on your machine) will guide you through this (if a distribution doesn't contain the re-partitioning routine, you have to do that as a fisrt step - before installing Linux - via 3rd-party software). But be very careful while doing the partitioning and if you're unsure what's going on, ask for help before proceeding, there are many users out there who have unwillingly formatted their "beloved" Windows partition because the default partition setup was a little to greedy.

If you're new to Linux, I'd recommend to first check out the live thing and then look into the vendor's instructions/FAQs/boards for detailled descriptions of what you have to be careful about in particular.

- Christoph

Thanks for your response, Cristoph.

On F: drive, I'm pretty sure that I installed WINDOWS & Program Files from C drive, as I thought I may need them to run F drive. I'm not too savvy on a lot of this stuff.

I also have two external drives,
L: and K:, and neither have WINDOWS or Program Files installed. One of these is used exlcusively for Acronis imaging.

I've been reading up on all the distribution options for Linux, and so I'm aquainting myself more and more before I do anything.

I know nothing and have no experience with partitioning; that's why I asked about simply using the internal Seagate HDD, or one of the two external MyBook HDDs to put Linux on.

I guess I can check out Linux simply by booting from a created CD as has been mentioned.

I'm just trying to keep ahead of the curve here.

Thanks again.