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Topic: Changing pedal set-up |
John Branston
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 29 May 2009 7:25 am |
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Hi guys. I'm a bit new to all this. Been playing guitar for many years and am trying to teach myself pedal steel. Bought an old Sho-Bud with 3 pedals and just one lever and doing quite well, I think. Really enjoying it, anyway.
One thing is a bit of a challenge, namely my C pedal is set up to raise 4th & 5th strings by a semitone, whereas all the reference material I'm using has the C pedal raising by a whole tone.
Is this something I can easily rectify?
John
Bath UK |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 29 May 2009 9:52 am
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John,
The 4th should be E-F#
The 5th should be B-C#...
The hex tuners at the changer end will raise/lower as needed. After retuning, you may need to adjust the pedal travel..ie, raise/lower at the ball connector for pedal hight. adjust for proper slack where the pedal rod hooks at the body.note the slack before you move anything, this is the slack you need when finished.If proper slack is not present, you will not be in tune when you release the pedal that you are changing.What brand guitar do you have??Look at pedal stops on this page, also changer on the other page.
Bill
http://www.steelguitar.com/steelmap/mapunder/mapunder.htm
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 29 May 2009 6:28 pm
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From the setup you have, with (3 & 1), I'm guessing you might have a rather old perminent set-up Sho~Bud! In that case, you would need to press P-3 and Open-Tune strings 4 & 5 to F# & C# respectively and then release P-3 and back off the fine-tune screws on the end of the neck! However, since your #1 pedal is already working properly, you perhaps do have an all-pull model. In that case, my suggestion is usless! Sorry, not knowing the model you have makes it difficult for me to be of any farther assistance! Does your undercarriage employ the rack & brass-barrel system?
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 29 May 2009 7:17 pm
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John, if you could post a pix of the undercarriage and the tuner's, It would be a big help.
BD
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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John Branston
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 12:07 am Photos
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Hi All
Thanks for the replies so far, for the help and suggestions. I was away at the weekend, but have taken some pics. Wasn't sure about posting them on here, so I've put them up on Flickr (link below). Detailed advice greatly appreciated!
John
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8586991@N06/sets/72157619001031163/ |
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Andy Hinton
From:
Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 3:38 am Shobud
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| John; From the pics. looks like you have a pro 1, all pull steel guitar. First you should probably give the third pedal a little more travel with the pedal stop beside where the rod hooks to the crossbar on the front skirt. then press third pedal & tune with the nylon tuning nuts on the end,Very simple opperation. You got a goodun. I have its mate in a D10 & love it. good luck. Andy H. |
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John Branston
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 5:22 am Thanks!
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Thanks so much, Andy. This is very helpful. I now just need to locate a tool that will fit the hex adjusters! Will let you know how I get on.
J |
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Andy Hinton
From:
Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 7:43 am Shobud
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| John: George-L has them or you might get one of Charlie's big-wheels here on the forum. Either will fit your tuners. Andy H. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 3 Jun 2009 12:18 pm
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| hardware store should have a hex nut driver. |
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Andy Hinton
From:
Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Jun 2009 4:08 pm changing pedal setup
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| John; I got the name wrong above, It's Carl Williams Big tuning wrench, in the For sale Amps & accessories Section. Andy H. |
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John Branston
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 4 Jun 2009 12:45 am
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| Thanks guys. Armed myself with a 5mm hex driver yesterday. Will attempt the re-tune tonight. |
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John Branston
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 27 Aug 2009 11:19 am Frustrating!
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Many thanks for your previous tips in this thread, but I still can't get things the way they need to be. Let's start with the C pedal. The only way I can make an adjustment to raise 4th & 5th strings by a full tone is to extend the range of travel of the pedal (in conjunction with adjusting the hex nuts at the changer end). But then the pedal actually hits the floor before the lever hits the adjustable stop! If I reduce the pedal travel, then I can't adjust the hex nut enough (the open strings are affected, even though I'm tuning them with the pedal depressed).
The B pedal is perfect: minimal travel to depress the pedal with a satisfying 'clunk' against the pedal stop, and a perfect semitone change.
The A pedal also makes a good semitone change on both strings, but I am pressing it into the carpet rather than against the stop.
Your further advice will be greatly appreciated! Any tech help in UK?! Thanks in advance!
John |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 27 Aug 2009 11:47 am
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| Quote: |
The A pedal also makes a good semitone change on both strings, but I am pressing it into the carpet rather than against the stop. |
I'm not sure if I'm following you but the A pedal should make a full step raise on 5 & 10, B>C#.
Here are things to try on the C pedal...and on the A pedal too if you are only getting the half-step raise---
--adjust the pedal rod where it connects to the pedal---if you need to, bring it to a machine shop and have them extend the threads and cut off a bit of the end. This is to keep the pedal of the floor as you increase the pedal travel.
--raise the rear legs to create some forward tilt.
But I just noticed---here's what you really need to do and it's a pain but-----you need to remove the swivel from the upper hole and put it in the lower hole. You will need extra c clips and ideally a c-clip pliers. This will increase the amount of pull per the amount of pedal/rod travel.
Let me add that I am not specifying these swivel hole settings as necessarily proper for a Pro 1. In fact on my Pro 1 the A pedal has both pullers hooked up to swivels in the top (closer to the cross shaft) hole and on the C pedal only the 4th string puller is on the lower hole.
But my suggestion is the mechanical solution to gaining more pull from your motion.
Also, make certain that the puller is tight on the shaft. |
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John Branston
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 27 Aug 2009 2:28 pm
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Thanks Jon. That's all food for thought. Yes my mistake: the A pedal of course raises a whole tone B to C#.
I looked at the upper and lower holes you pointed to on my photo (thanks) but my understanding of geometry makes me think the upper holes give me most travel as they are nearer the pivot?
And here's another thing. As I tipped the guitar over to look underneath, then put it back on its legs, the pedal bar has moved on the legs, so that the whole situation is totally different. There are wing nuts at either end of the pedal bar, tightening the bar onto the legs, but these had slipped despite being tight. Guess I need to stop the pedal bar rising up the legs before I can sort everything else out. When I push them right down the legs, the pedal start position is quite high but suddenly I am not pushing them into the carpet anymore. This solves the A pedal but I still need to sort the C pedal.
Any further comments gratefully accepted!
John |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 27 Aug 2009 3:07 pm
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| Quote: |
| I looked at the upper and lower holes you pointed to on my photo (thanks) but my understanding of geometry makes me think the upper holes give me most travel as they are nearer the pivot? |
Negative. As I stated it is correct. |
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John Branston
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 28 Aug 2009 1:14 am Thanks!
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Jon I am indebted for your help. I re-thought my geometry and of course you are correct!
Took a look under the Sho-Bud in better light this morning and I can see exactly what needs to happen, now you have pointed it out so clearly.
Is there a specification for these c-clips? If Sho-bud just made use of a common size I can probably source some here. Otherwise I'd appreciate pointers to a source for these. I can pay by card or Paypal.
Thanks again!
J |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 28 Aug 2009 8:57 am
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These will be off-the-shelf items. I visually matched them at the hardware store so I don't know the size BUT---
I think I read this as 1/4" or 6 mm.
These pliers were inexpensive (well under $10, I think) and indeed they are cheap and crappy. But they more or less do the job and I couldn't see spending as much as one could (triple the price) for a tool that is as seldom used (for me) as this.
Around here, Small Parts is a source although I've found most of what they sell elsewhere and cheaper but I can't find those links right now. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 Aug 2009 3:47 pm
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| wow...i thought it was just old emmons' that had these annoying clips..! |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 28 Aug 2009 4:06 pm
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| My theory is that Buddy said "these clips piss people off so much on the Sho-Buds---I'm definitely gonna use them on the new Emmons guitars". Just a theory. |
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Ron Kassof
From:
Las Vegas, NV, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2009 5:35 am
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| One thing I just found out about these "Snap Rings" is that there are not only different diameter rings, as well as internal (fit inside a tube) and external (fit around a rod)types, but the "plier holes" come in different sizes. I bought a cheap set of Snap Ring Pliers from Harbor Freight a while back to add a Drop D lever to a Hipshot B Bender, so I figured I'd use them on my ShoBud Pro III. Turns out the 'Bud uses 1mm (0.35") tip pliers and my pliers were too big. I was able to snap and reapply the rings by hand, on the cross-shafts anyway but I went back to HF and got a more expensive ($7) set of pliers to work on the brass swivels. You can reuse the old snap rings if you don't mangle them too much and they do like to go flying across the room if you don't get them on or off just right. Good luck with your 'Bud! |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 29 Aug 2009 7:00 am
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| You know--I totally forgot that I also had this problem with the pliers. I don't recall if I got them locally or online (could well have been Harbor Freight). It hadn't occurred to me that they were the wrong size. I assumed they were poorly milled and I ground down the tips to fit. Either way, they aren't exactly precision instruments but I much preferred working with them to the fun I had trying to mess with the clips (yet another alternate name--retaining rings, btw) without pliers. |
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John Branston
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 1 Sep 2009 3:43 am Thanks... sorted!
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Many thanks to everyone for advice and tips, but most of all, thanks to James Morehead of Prague, OK for mailing me off-thread with a step-by-step guide to setting up my C pedal correctly, based on his own knowledge and experience of the exact same model. Thankfully the process completely avoided getting to grips with those pesky C-clips, and I was done in about 20 minutes.
It is great to have three pedals all doing their thing with just the right amount of travel and all the same starting height!
Thanks again to James and also to all of you who contributed. |
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