Revelation versus Lemay pre-amp

Anthony Vandewalle · From: Hawks Nest, NSW, Australia

Has anyone ABed the Revelation versus the Lemay Mk1 pre-amp particularly in conjunction with a Nashville 400 or 112? Any views which pre-amp would be more suited?

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Mickey Adams and I will be putting this exact comparison to the acid test this week!!!

We are going to record using one track and each pre-amp. Then we can do a serious AB comparison.

Will post results and files when we get it finished.
_________________
Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

I think the tubes might win this competition Laughing

_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases.

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

Will it be the LeMay pre amp or the Mullen?

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

I will reiterate what I had said in an earlier post regarding the new Mullen SG300 pre-amp. 2 weeks ago in Branson I heard Del himself playing this preamp, and It was the best tone I heard all weekend...bar none. I promise you all that's NOT me blowing smoke either. What really matters to us all is, does it give me what I WANT...right?
Anthony, are you asking about the preamp being used on the Peavey amps in place of their internal preamp section?...Please be specific,as I have both...
Mark Tulbert is a very meticulous player, and recording engineer, and I can assure you the comparison will be thorough, and unbiased...and he will undoubtedly speak his mind!!! Laughing

Stay tuned!!!!!...
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders!

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Just a clarification.

Mickey and I are NOT in competition as to which is better. We are both on the same quest; looking for the perfect tone.

I feel that the best way to compare is to eliminate as many variables as possible. My thinking for the test will be Mickey's G2 played into the Mullen Pre amp and then into the revelation. We will record both to a track and then solo them to see what the differences in timbre and tonality are.

As far as I am concerned there will not be a winner or loser just a matter of what tonal preference one prefers and perhaps how to achieve it.

M
_________________
Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

Bob Lawrence · From: Beaver Bank, Nova Scotia, Canada

Mickey & Mark

I'm looking forward to the comparison, it should be fun. They are both great products. Like Mark indicated sometmes it just comes down to what you like the best, as an individual.

Dan Murphy · From: Missouri, USA

I wish Del all the best with his product. But I sure hope this doesnt make the Rev just a flash in the pan!! Whoa!

Anthony Vandewalle · From: Hawks Nest, NSW, Australia

Mark
I think your proposed AB test is very timely and no doubt will generate a high level of interest.
Mickey
Yes I would like to try a pre-amp to bypass the internal pre-amp of the Peaveys. I like the clean sound of the Peaveys but would like to explore the claims of some of the pre-amp suppliers that their product provides a tube-like tone warmth without affecting the highs. So, perhaps at the risk of appearing to be greedy, I would like to get the best of both worlds; the warmth of tubes coupled with the tonal clarity of transistors. Maybe I'm being too simplistic or miss the point somewhere. I understand that there are three recent pre-amp arrivals specifically designed for steel guitar: the Revelation which is tube-driven, the Le May Mk1 which is transistor-driven as is the Mullen SG 300. The first two claim the tone "warming" characteristics whereas I cannot find any published Mullen claims other than a general spec. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Incidentally, the LeMay and Mullen look very similar. All I'm interested in is finding out whether these products per se achieve what they lay claim to and improve the tone to my ear in conjuction with Peaveys' main amp section. If so, which pre-amp's tone do I like best. I note that you only propose to AB the Revelation and the Mullen. Inclusion of the LeMay would complete the picture?

Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

I was told the Mullen and Lemay units are the same unit, with a few slight modifications to the Mullen.

I had a chance to beta test the Lemay unit and it is quiet and lush and powerful and clean. It goes with saying that the better the power amp you use the better this thing will sound. (unpaid comments, just my 2 cents)

Larry Behm

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Good Morning Everyone,

I spoke to Mickey last night and we are psyched to do this Very Happy

Mickey did tell me that there are differences between the Mullen and the LeMay Preamps. Mickey can give the specifics on the differences and how they came about.

I personally don't believe that one is going to make another a "flash in the pan". I have used my Rev for a couple of years now and I get rave reviews about the tone with my Zum Hybrid. No one says much about the playing; just the tone Smile

Serously, I am delighted that we have the technology today to discuss it, test it, and have files for everyone to listen to.

Larry B. Hopefully Mickey will get on and tell everyone the differences in the units. While I like our test parameters, it is only going to be going direct into the board in a controlled setting. The stage variable that you described would also be an interesting test although Mickey said that in Bransom the setup sounded amazing.

M
_________________
Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

Anthony Vandewalle · From: Hawks Nest, NSW, Australia

Mark & Mickey
My guess is that most forumites play through a non-tube amp such as a Nashville. Would it therefore not be more representative and interesting if your test sequence was by benchmarking a stand alone amp first (no effects) followed by testing of the additional A and B pre-amp.

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Hi Anthony,

I like your suggestion but I don't think we can get a fair analysis for several reasons.

1. Room enters into the equation..
2. Mic enters into the equation
3. Volume level would make a difference

Our test is really to show the difference between the two preamps and to achieve that IMHO is take out as many variables as possible. That is why we will go direct into the board to eliminate the room and other external conditions.

I think that Larry B. had a similar thought and maybe if Mickey sees this he may have an idea as to how to achieve that test.

I don't think my area is conducive for it.

Regards,
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Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Good Morning Everyone,

I just got off the phone with Mickey and we had to postpone our test till next week. We are now hoping to do the A B on Tuesday.

As soon as we get this done we will post files and what we did for everyone to look at.

Regards,
_________________
Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

Scott Malchow · From: Minnesota, USA

Mark and Mickey,

I'm looking forward to hearing thoughts from both of you on this listening test.
I really appreciate your statement, Mark, that your comparisons are not going to determine a "winner"....To me, that's a strange concept.

Both of these products are high quality and well designed concepts- But they are
based on different designs that will give different sonic results..

I'm really interested in your thoughts on:
1. How do the 2 units react as you increase the pre gain leaving the master at
a moderate to low level? With the rev, I like the 'compression' brought on by
the tube and the different midrange characteristic as you push it a bit....
What is the Mullen's characteristic?

2.How do you perceive the voicing of each of the unit's EQ?
The rev's color control vrs a sweepable mid on the Mullen....

I guess, to sum it up, I'm interested to hear what you guys think of the range
of each unit's voice more than whether you can get them to sound the same
with a certain setting
and all that kind of stuff.

I know, Mickey, you have an Avalon 737. Throw that in the comparison, too!
Do you guys have time?

Thanks guys,
Scott

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Hey Scott,

Thanks for responding. There is no doubt that the results are going to be different; that's for sure.

We should be able to experiment with your first two ideas with no problem. Mickey had mentioned that he really liked the sweepable mid on the Mullen. I was trying to think how to run a signal generator through each and look at some type of frequency response, but I don't have that type of gear. Our results will be opinions and that is it.

I also have an Avalon 737 preamp that I use in my little office studio. Terrific unit. If you want to hear what is sounds like go to www.empty-pockets.com and then the audio clip page. Have a listen to Someday Soon. That was done with the Avalon and my Show Pro. Am always interested in feedback as well.

Regards,

Mark T.
_________________
Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Well, we finally were able to do our test. We were a day late, but at least not a dollar short! Very Happy

Here is what we did. We used Mickey's G2 Mullen, the Mullen Preamp, my Revelation Pre Amp, and Hilton pedal.

Mickey played on all four combinations and the track we used was the turnaround to Someday Soon. We wanted to keep it simple so the parts would be close to the same on each take so you guys can compare.

My thoughts on the entire process? There really is not a clear winner to any of this; it is really what you want to hear. Honestly my favorite was the Revelaton through the Mullen Pedal. That did make a difference IMHO.

I am hoping to have these little sound byttes mixed down and Mickey will post on this thread as well with an uplink so you can download them and listen.

Emjoy.

Regards,
_________________
Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Hi Mark -- did you do a comparison between the Hilton pedal and Mullen/Telonics pedal as well as part of your testing???
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases.

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

I know a lot of you would have very technical questions about this little experiment that Mark and I did. I am submitting my take on this and I hope that Mark will elaborate in a future thread.
1: There is a MARKED difference in the tonal response of the two volume pedals. When the Hilton pedal was used, there was a major difference in the response from the low end of my guitar. We plugged in and played the,
Hilton+Rev first, and by all accounts the tone was what we all expected...Clear, and clean, with a warm midrange charachter.
When the Mullen pedal was added to the REV (Position 4 Only Used)...The whole bottom end of my guitar sprang to life. The tone was overwhelming to say the least. Now, we used 2 Hilton pedals for this test, we also changed the pot settings on the Hilton pedals from one end to the other...The tone coming from the Mullen pedal, could NOT be duplicated by the Hilton. Its not to say that it sounded inferior...It sounded very different..And to my ears, The Mullen pedal sounded better...Mark and I both were in total agreement here.
We next used the Mullen Pre-Amp and the Hilton Pedal. No doubt, great tone. The bottom end seperation again was gone. The tone was good on tape.
When the Mullen SG300, and Multi-Taper pedal were combined, again, the bottom end came back to life.
We recorded several duplicate tracks and compared all the combinations together. Heres MHO.
The Mullen gear consistently produced a tighter more defined high-end, and more bottom end seperation giving a crystal clear charachter to the track.
The REV was warm in the midrange, consistenly darker, but a great tone just the same. I did note that when I boosted the high-end on the REV to try and match the Mullen, an audible hiss was apparent through the monitors that the Mullen did not seem to exhibit.Heres where YOUR preference comes in...Mark prefers the sound of the Mullen Pedal, with the REV, and thats his opinion, very respectable tone, and flexibility. I preferred the Mullen Pre-Amp combined with the Mullen Pedal, (Fav setting 4). A note on the Pedal differences. The Mullen pedal is an all new design. If youve looked inside the Hilton you will see that a progressively more opaque film is passed in front of the light source. As the light source dims the volume is lowered..It would seem to me that the only way to change the throw would be to change the films opacity ratios..Stop me if im wrong somebody...The Mullen pedal does NOT use any type of light source, and has multiple parameters that can be varied with the tools provided...Being a somewhat techy guy...I like that idea..
I spoke with Dick Wood on the way home, so the pedal is going to him Friday night and he will utilize it onstage here in Ft Worth...Dick is a fine player, and a working one too..LOL...Hopefully we can get his opinion on the pedal, and see if he sees the same differences through his rig as well...
All being said, this thread is merely MY OPINION for what its worth. It is in no way meant to imply anything negative about ANY of the components that were tested. The true test for us all, is what sounds best to us...Because face it...the better you percieve your tone to be, the better you play,and thats what we are all after.
Peace!...Mickey
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders!

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I think it's important to remember that any significant change in tone what is experienced when just plugging the guitar directly into the amp (with no volume pedal, and no preamp) means that the device in question (whatever it may be) is performing changes in the EQ. I know that many players here eschew the benefits of EQ, but when it's properly managed, EQ changes can do wonderful and marvelous things to your sound. For some of us, the unadulterated sound coming out of the guitar is tone heaven. For others, though, it's merely the starting point for a whole realm of possibilities that most steelers never tap.

Mike Mantey · From: Eastern Colorado, USA

The Mullen and the Lemay are different pre-amps. Del first saw the Lemay Preamp in Phoenix and loved it. So he bought one. Then after working with John Lemay and Dave Beaty we decided to take it to the next level and come out with the Mullen Pre-Amp. There are several more features and changes to the amp to suit Del's personal taste the best, and that is what the Mullen Amp is, it also incorporates the ability to hook up our triple spring reverb pan. Below you will see a picture of the front and back of the 2 and can see the differences.

As for the Volume Pedals the Telonics pedal and the Mullen pedal are the same thing, We are just marketing the amazing pedal built by Telonics and Dave Beaty, simply (well not simple) but Amazing.

Mickey as for your test the blend control is where you really need to adjust to get that warm tube sound. Both pre-amps (Lemay and Mullen) have this feature and with the extreme amount of adjustment you should be able to achieve it. Glad to hear your testing them out though. They will prove to impress.

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

Mike thanks so much for posting this. I spent about 20 minutes on the phone with John LeMay last night picking his brain. Ive had so many questions from potential new buyers, and I wanted to be sure I had my ducks in a row. This post answered the questions...I will direct them to this post..
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ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders!

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Isn't "perfect tone" kinda the same as "perfect color"?
I like blue. Smile

john lemay · From: Ainsworth NE

No, no, no. The perfect color is Candy Apple Red. everyone knows that Cool

David Pinkston · From: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA

My understanding is the Mullen is 300-400 more expensive than the Lemay?

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