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Topic: Headless Lap Steel Design |
Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 5:02 am |
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OK, I got to thinking about a headless lap steel design so it might be more convenient for travel, etc. - I don't have all the details worked out but it's a start - It's only 25" total length with a 23" scale - The red lines indicate strings - the ends of the strings would be at the nut end go over the bridge down through the body and around a piece with nocthes/bearings(?)and then to the tuners - It's an idea to have some fun with - Feel free to comment - DB
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 5:26 am
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Interesting idea, Dennis. I like the basic concept. Here's a couple of thoughts that are probably not helpful in the least:
1. what about routing out the area where you show the tuner holes so the tuner knobs can point up, instead of out to the side? This would keep the whole thing narrower, but of course would add a little height, although they might not stick up any more than the strings.
2. What about Steinberger-type tuners at the bridge end? Of course, this would increase the cost (not a good thing) but would make everything more compact.
The only part of your design I'm not really sure about is where the strings cross over themselves -- I just wonder if this would interfere with blocking/right hand position in general. Say, where do you think you'd put the jack?
I'm not discouraging this in the least -- I love to see new ideas, and this is a pretty darn good one.
_________________
Peter
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www.splinterville.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@splinterville6278/videos |
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 5:39 am
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| Peter - You're not discouraging me - I want to keep the cost down so I'd like to use standard style tuners - as far as the strings crossing over themselves they actually don't - I was mainly trying to show the route they would take to get to the tuners - the strings would go down through the body and around some device to compensate for the angle and then over to the actual tuner - I couldn't show that in a 2D drawing - As far as how I would attach the tuners that's not in stone yet either - as far as the jack I'll squeeze that in where I can - this is just a first draft contcept sketch - For me personally I may modify this 15 - 25 times before I would ever touch a piece of wood - I just thought it might be fun for some of the members to comment on it and the basic idea and you've brought up some good points - with more input I'll do more changes and refinements - DB |
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Geoff Cline
From:
Southwest France
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 6:53 am
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Have to agree with the Steinberger tuner comment. Cleaner, easier for "tuning tweaks on the fly" and a straighter pull for the strings. To me, the incremental cost increase over other quality tuners is a non-issue. When it comes to a steel, tuners and hardware generally need to be as good as they can be IMHO.
Good luck. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 7:05 am
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Dennis,,,I've made 10-15 of those,,sold some on the forum. You can do a search under my name,,,or contact me and I'll be glad to send pics.
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 7:20 am
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Sonny - Why didn't you say so sooner - Sure would have saved me a lot of trouble  - VERY nice looking guitars!! What's the price range? DB |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 7:37 am
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| John - Thanks much for the input - I also did some searching and found some of the same info - It looks like Sonny has made some nice guitars already - Not sure if I'll spend more time on the design if someone else has got a good solution to it - I'll have to do some more thinkin' on it - DB |
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 9:16 am
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Dennis,
RISA, a German instrument maker, has a ukulele that looks a lot like your lap steel concept. I've got one, and it is the most compact and most rugged ukulele out there, great for travel.
But tuning the instrument is a real headache. The strings just don't move smoothly around that rod (the rod between the bridge and the tuners, where the strings bend around). I've tried different strings, I've tried lubricating the string with graphite, but it's always sticky. To tune the uke, you need to turn the tuner, then tug on the string on both sides of the rod to equalize tension, then check your pitch, then do that again and again until the string is finally in tune. Then you need to do it all over again with the next string. Very frustrating. Maybe it would be different with metal strings, instead of the ukulele's nylon strings, but I bet you'd still have problems there.
My guess is you'd be better off with one of the in-line solutions that everybody's talking about here.
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 9:58 am
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How about tuning pins, like you'd see in a piano or zither?
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 10:18 am
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Kekoa - I'd thought about those, but I'm thinking they are mainly used for lighter stringed instruments but could still possibly work and I think it's an idea worth considering - I'm just wondering if people would complain about having to use a wrench to tune the instrument - They would loose it, not have a place to put it, yadda yadda - Using them would certainly keep the cost down - I'm thinking the final cost of the guitar is still going to play a major factor in regards as to what people want and what people are willing to spend  - DB |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 10:39 am
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Dennis, the price range of mine were 350 for the painted ones to 650 for the nice hard woods. They are 22 1/2" scale, 26" overall. Besides being as compact as possible, they had VERY minimal string length outside the bridge and nut, allowing it to "tune" and STAY in tune. I've not had time to build any lately, but I'm honored to say I have happy customers abroad as well as here in the states,,,,even the late, great Rick Alexander bought one that he stated he was very pleased with. I personally am partial to the keyless concept, even on my pedal guitars,,,seeing no logical need (other than tradition) for the extra string length.
I also designed a tuner that was recessed into the bottom of the guitar, so that a 22 1/2" scale guitar was 23 1/8" long,,,the ends of the guitar were literally the bridge and the nut,,,,but it was quite a bit more labor intensive.
If I do make any more guitar I would certainly like to talk to you about making fret boards for me.
Last edited by Sonny Jenkins on 31 Jul 2009 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 10:53 am Keyless Lap Guitar
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Rex Blattenberger makes a compact 10 string keyless travel guitar.
NEW Travel guitar available: Over-all length 22 ΒΌ inches Scale 19 inches
http://www.weneedthemoneyguitars.com/ |
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 12:30 pm
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| In doing more searching on the web and from what people have posted examples of and links to and I'm thinking I really need to design a headless bridge that adjusts the strings - I found a couple on the web for electric guitars but they IMHO were to costly, about $400.00 - So I guess I'll put my thinking cap back on - Feel free to still comment and provide input - DB |
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Bobby Burns
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 2:27 pm
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| We have a very busy local lap steel sideman in Chattanooga named Tim Starnes. He has several "real" lap steels, but his favorite is a cheap Steinberger copy headless guitar that I set up with a high nut like a steel. I think it may be a Cort. There were lots of these made in the '80s. I would think a Steinberger copy could be a fairy cheap ebay find. |
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 2:35 pm
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Bobby - Thanks much and let me know if you find one, I'd sure like to know about it - In the meantime I'm going to ponder and see what I can't come up with - I'll be sure to post a drawing here first to get input - I'm fortunate that I can create my own CNC files and have people with plasma and laser cutters not to far away and with the economy the way it is they are even willing to talk to me  - More comments are welcome - DB |
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2009 5:15 am
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| I found an electric headless Steinberger knockoff bridge on Ebay for around $50.00 - I sent the seller a question about string spacing and to make sure he's alive and real - for that kind of money it might be worth trying one - he had more than a few for sale - I would make my own nut so we'll see what happens - more comments are still encouraged - DB |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 1 Aug 2009 12:36 pm
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What about placing the tuners like on the Traveler Pro guitars, that way the strings wouldn't have to make such exteme angles behind the bridge:
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2009 1:45 pm
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| Roman - That's another possible option - someone else emailed me privately about it as well - I think there are a lot of good options with a lot of different price points - I'm going to work on my version and hopefully others will be working on some of their designs as well - not to mention the good ones that already exist that I didn't know about - The more the merrier - DB |
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 8:08 pm
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I just was at the Museum Of Modern Art in New York, and saw this guitar on display in the Design gallery. It's not a steel guitar (although is is all stainless steel) but it's an intriguing headless design. Made by Allan Gittler in 1975. Those knurled knobs past the nut are the tuners.
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Mark Bracewell
From:
Willow Glen, California
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 8:49 pm
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| wow - and hexaphonic too |
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Dennis Brooker
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2009 4:09 am
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Looks like something that fell off a space ship or was in an episode of STAR TREK - I'm still working on my design, it just might be a while - Keep those cards and letters coming  - DB |
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