The Steel Guitar Forum

I've made a few posts lately that made mention of the Fractal Axe-Fx and as a result I've received a ton of questions and emails. It seems to be generating quite a bit of interest, so I thought I would post some of the questions and answers here.


What does it do?
It's a pre-amp and effects unit that has the capability of producing both the sound and the feel of a wide variety of tube amps and analog effects.

Why would I want one of these when I'm already happy with what I have?
Short answer, you don't want one of these! On the other hand, if you need to reproduce a wide variety of sound and tones LIVE, well, then this may be just what you're looking for. In my personal situation, this unit is replacing a TON of gear in my live rig. Here's a prime example of what I would do on just one song: This is a demo from a CD of original music we'll be releasing early next year.

http://u12multimedia.com/tunes/EveryoneWasDancing.mp3

On this tune I have four drastically different sound/tone changes. The first part, the twangy baritone tremolo (yes, that's Pedal Steel) is a Fenderish patch, next I double with the guitar player on the staccato rhythm parts on the verse, that with a patch based on a JM45, next the b-section and the chorus, somewhat more traditional style playing is a patch loosely based on a Vox AC30 and then for the solo break (and again, that is Pedal Steel) full on high gain with a patch very loosely based on a cranked Marshall JCM800. Yes, in the studio, with the right software, you could track like this all day long So what's the big deal with the Axe-Fx? For me the big deal that I can get these sounds, and a bazillion more LIVE, and without the truckload of gear that I used to have to take out. With a midi controller, these sounds are just one button away and changes can all be made instantly within the same song. And equally as important to me, if feels just like playing through a tube amp. I was never able to get results like this --live-- with any other gear than tube amps. Bottom line for me is that these days if you want to work in alt-country or rock bands, you're going to need quite a bit more than a Nashville 112 and a token Rat or Fuzz.


Does it REALLY sound and feel like a tube amp?
Imho, yes, but it thoroughly depends on how well the unit is set up and programed. When programed and tweaked, the results are amazing. I'm able to feel the sag and the "squish" just like a tube amp.

Is it THAT much better than the POD or Boss GTx?
Again, imho yes. I've owned and still own a wide variety of what I would consider "first generation" modelers. The Axe-Fx is definitely the next generation.

Will it sound good for me right out of the box?
Probably not. The main market for this is the 6 string world. However, this unit is so insanely versatile that with the incredible depth and richness of adjustment parameters, there is no reason that you can't dial in what you're looking for. I wouldn't consider this a "just add water" type of device. It will take some work and you will have to read the manual and study up a bit. If you are at home in a recording environment, use a DAW such as Pro Tools, Logic etc., then I believe this would make a lot of sense right off the bat. Personally, I find this miles easier to program than say a TC G-Major or any of the Lexicon units.

Are the presets/factory patches any good or usable?
If you tend to like and use the POD or Boss GT presets, then yes, there's a lot of high gain stuff and crunch that could be good. Personally, I've found that none of the presets were suitable for me as is. They do however provide a great foundation as a starting point or example. For instance, with around 5 or 10 minutes of tweaking on a patch called "Stevie's Rotary", I was able to get a killer SRV/Danny Gatton style rotary distortion.

Is there a software editor for use on my PC/Mac?
Yes but it's currently in beta (testing), and if you're not comfortable with using beta software and putting with some bugs, then you should pass on this for now. It's going to be worth the wait though, imho.

Does it have a model of a Fender.xxx or a Marshall.xxx?
Short answer, no. Long answer, yes, but you have to create it. For me one of the biggest differences between the Axe and first generation modeling devices is that the Axe doesn't really provide a model of a specific amp. Instead, it gives you a tool-set that allows one to dial in a sound that would match a particular amp. This is really an important distinction. From the Axe manual:

"It's not a modeler in the strict sense. Although it has cabinet emulation and different amplifier
"types" it does not attempt to model any amplifier or effect exactly. Rather the Axe-Fx was designed
to simply provide the effect as originally intended and with the utmost quality. All effects can be
described in terms of their desired sonic manipulation. All effect processors, whether "stomp boxes"
or otherwise, process the input signal to get an output signal, simple as that. However, some
processors obviously do better than others. The Axe-Fx approaches effects processing as a strict set
of specifications and implements those specifications."

Part of the initial confusion a while back on the 6 string forums was a result of a couple of references to amp types and the notation used to describe them. Cliff, the designer of the Axe has maintained that they are just general descriptions and are not intended to describe specific amps or circuits.

Will this work with my existing gear or will I need a bunch of new stuff?
I've had great success using the Axe with a variety of gear but there are definitely some things I've found that work better than others.
--Truetone pickups and the Axe can produce a wide variety of incredibly great traditional Steel tones. As I noted in another post, they don't work well at all for any medium to high gain patches. So far the best compromise for me has been the E-66.
--I'm getting great results with the Axe-Fx by plugging directly into the mains and using just a monitor on stage. I could see this a a huge plus for all of the guys in Worship bands that go direct. Basically hand off an XLR to the sound guy and tell him to flatten out the eq and pan hard left and right. After he stops arguing with you and tries it, you'll have a friend for life since you're now making his job incredibly easy.
--If you're using a guitar cabinet, you'll want to use a power amp that doesn't color the signal. The power amp simulation of the Axe will take care of that. I"m finding for example that the ART SLA-1 and SLA-2 work great and are much more suitable than my Mosvalve 500.

Can you get great traditional Pedal Steel tone?
Absolutely YES. Not only from Fender models, but I also find the HiWatt model to be fantastic for clean, rich and warm steel tones. Again, it's gonna take some work to program the patches right.




Whew......Ok, I didn't mean for this to become such a long and drawn out post but I had been getting too many emails to be able to return each one with a personal answer. I hope this post helps with most of the questions you guys have about about the Axe. I'll be glad to try and address any other questions here. At some point, when I have a better handle on the unit, I'll post my collection of patches, and I hope others will do the same.

Lastly I have to say that this unit is the ultimate YMMV entity. It's just not going to be for everyone. It is sooooo dependent on the work you put into it. Also, this post is strictly my opinion(s) and I have nothing to do with Fractal Audio, the producers of this gear. My intention is only to try and answer some questions from the point of view of a gigging Pedal Steel player and Axe owner.

Larry,

That's a great post! Thanks for all the time you put into it. I'm absolutely getting one of these sometime in September. I'll probably be bothering you around then for some pointers on getting started....
I'm all about having a different sound for each tune.
With the new direction country music is going you almost have to do that, especially when you're in a band of 5 people....

Thanks, Jeff

Larry,
Thanks for posting this. As I mentioned in your other thread, Ive been considering the Fractal Audio Axe-FX seriously for both guitar and steel, and more. Ive been gathering lots of amps thru the years, most recently a Fender Dual Professional and a VOX AC30 with Blues, But there's just something totally appealing about a lightweight rack that sounds like anything you want live! Keep us posted on any new tweaks and patch edits you find useful. BTW, I recently replaced my stock Mullen pickup with an E-66 as well, so Im glad youve found that was a workable solution to your feedback issues with the Axe.

Adding a bit more information...

Pickup choices with the Fractal Axe-Fx:

Wallace Truetone 19.6 with coil tap at 11k
Beautiful cleans and patches with just a little bit of hair to them. Would be a dynamite choice for guys just needing great pure tone from the Axe-Fx. With the tap at 11k you can dial in some killer Bakersfield-Brumley kind of tones. For any kind of distortion or high gain playing, this won't be an option. In order to get enough gain happening on most patches, it feeds back like crazy.....and not the great Hendrix kind of feedback.

E-66:
Safe option for guys needing a wide variety of tone. Not my favorite pickup for getting good clean PSG tone with the Axe, but I'm able to dial in passable clean tones. Since the pickup is encased in epoxy, it works like a champ for high gain/rock stuff. Still, wouldn't be my first choice. YMMV

Lawrence 712
I had much better luck with dialing in both high gain and clean tones with the 712. On most of the gain patches you can coax a great harmonic bloom of feedback and the clean patches are warmer than the E-66. Still a compromise for me though.

Lace Alumitone 4.5
4.5 fits perfectly for my 12 string Fessys. I had to fashion a mounting plate, but it was worth it! This is the ONE so far. Great warm traditional tones that rival the Truetone! I also tried it out with my Headstrong King Reverb and I actually find it warmer with better separation than the Truetone. Gain and crunch patches sound great with the Axe. There's a bit of a feedback issue on the really high gain stuff, so I'm thinking that the Lawrence handles all the gain stuff the best. But, so far for my money, the Alumitone is the best so far.

Of course, YMMV

-LarryW

I'm very interested in this pre myself ....I'm wondering if there is nothing in the edit parameters of this box that allows you to adjust the gain coming into the pre ? .....In a lot of effects or pre's the gain that the pedal steel pickups have , does a number on quite a few units ....Maybe a simple volume pot built into a box with and in and out jack might work ? ....That is if the gain is the problem here ....If the box works better with 6 string guitar , I'm thinking that maybe this IS the issue ...????...Jim

James, I believe you're hitting right on it.

There are a number of ways to reduce gain internally with the Axe. You could use a "null" filter block on a patch by patch basis which allows a 12db reduction. You can also reduce gain globally via one of the two global eq controls. The input level knob could also be tweaked to lower the overall input. I found the filter block didn't help enough in most cases. The global gain control works perfectly if you're tuning and tweaking the Axe for just one instrument, and especially if it's just used for clean tone. I also use a Dobro and a couple of lap steels on live gigs, so the global adjustment is out. Additionally, if you roll the gain down too much to compensate, you loose the saturation you were looking for in the first place. Also, most guys, myself included, use the global eq adjustments to tweak for room changes. Just like using a regular tube amp, your settings would change from gig to gig and room to room. Using the globals in this fashion keeps you from having to adjust individual patches.

I've been experimenting with a 250k and 500k pot as a volume control and it seems to do exactly what you're describing. If I roll off the volume pot just a bit I can get a better clean range on the volume pedal. Roll it back up and the dirt increases...just like the standard 6 string scenario. Perhaps NOT the ideal situation for the typical Steel player, but for the Axe, and the way I use it, works like a charm.

The Alumitone continues to amaze me for both incredibly warm and rich clean tones and great gainy tone with the Axe. Adding a volume and tone control into the mix really seems to be the final step in getting this rig to work the way I had hoped.

-L

Larry,

I do understand your using global tone controls to control your sound from room to room or even from empty room to full room ...You may only need to use said volume pot for the pedal steel ....All the other instruments that you mention, and also most other electronic instruments are low enough in gain to not need this control , but for the ones that do ( ped steel, keyboards, active setups) it would be an invaluable tool to cut the gain going INTO the unit ...This way you don't have to fish for parameters in the unit ....It would be an exteranal box that you could grab at will so to speak to lower the gain going into the Axe Fx ..... A pad for lack of a better word .... What I've found with a lot of pre's is that they are designed for a certain amount of gain coming into them ....Most are overloaded right from the git go as they enter the input , so basically you are already shaping an overdriven instrument right from the start ....If you pad the instrument down right from the beginning , the pre see's the signal as a normal guitar or as a similar gain coming into the unit ....As you said in your post, you don't really have to pad down all that much with the volume control depending on the pickup being used ...The pot allows external adjustment of each culprit instrument being used ...I would hate to have to commit to adjusting EQ to compensate for too much or too little gain ... The reason you are getting a cleaner range on clean tones is that the gain from the pickup is not overdriving the input stage right from the start when you pad it using judicial use of the volume control ..... I hope I'm on the right track here because it would really be a crime to have such a nice unit and have limited use of it when it came to pedal steel .... Variety IS the spice of life !!!.....Thanks for your reply ....Sincerely, Jim

Larry;
Great post about the Axe- Fx.
Couple of questions: ( I may have missed these)
do you use a foot controller to change patches, effects, etc?
Do you have the Ultra or Standard?
Direct or thru an amp?
A friend of mine own an Ultra.
I plan to bring my guitars over for a test drive.
Thanks in advance!
Steve

Glad the post is a help.

Steve, I'm currently testing out a Ground Control Pro from Voodoo Labs and a Midi Mate. Both seem to work well but I'm taking a really hard look at the Liquid Foot Jr. It's a bit expensive, but it's small and can be set up by song and set list. I've been in the studio and at rehearsals without a midi controller, but I don't think I'd want to go out live without one.

I have the Standard and I've been running both direct and through a power amp and guitar cab configuration. Both have their advantages and dis-advantages. For most gigs I'm preferring the power amp and cab. I'm using an ART SLA-1 in the bridged position going into a Port City 2x12 with Hellatones. So far I like this configuration a lot.

-Larry

Hey Larry,

Are you saying I can't easily switch from patch to patch using the controls on the front of the Axe FX unit? I've always constructed sounds for each tune and just saved them in set order before the gig. Is that possible with the Axe? I should be ordering it in the next few weeks and want to make sure I've got all that I need.

Thanks again, Jeff

Jeff, I think that you could definitely set up so you don't need any sort of controller. I look at the controller more as a pedalboard. It gives me the opportunity to change patches easily but it also give me the ability to program Instant Access sends that will turn on and off specific effects or control specific parameters.

I think part of the true beauty of the Axe is that you can make it as complex or as simple as you want. I'm trying to stay somewhere in the middle ground.

Larry,

Thanks for the clarification. It's not often that I have to make large adjustments of my patches on the gig. I'm planning on using it in conjunction with the Revelation Tube Preamp at first, so EQ adjustments will be done there. Like you said earlier, I may end up just going through the Axe FX unit with no preamp once I really learn how to use it.

Thanks again, Jeff

Hey Larry,

Thanks for the information. I'm *really* skeptical about modeling, but I know in a theoretial way that they could work well with sufficient processing power and algorithms, but everything I've tried has failed on the 'Turing test' (blindfold test with tube versus modeler).

I'll give this a try, especially since Ed Degenaro uses one.

Larry,

I just listened to the cut you posted. I like it a lot. Some great traditional and 'guitaristic' sounds. The steel needs to be mixed louder on the solo. I'd love to hear the finished product.

Sounds like if Eric Haywood leaves the Pretenders, you might have a good shot at the gig!

Wow, thanks so much for the kind words Dan! I'm thrilled that you like it! I really do feel fortunate to play with some folks that allow and encourage me to stretch it out and try things that are somewhat out of the box. Definitely will be a CD heading your way once it's done.

It means especially a lot coming from you. You've been a huge influence on everything I do.

I began to take a hard look at the Axe-Fx after Dweezil Zappa started taking it out on the Zappa plays Zappa tours. When I started seeing posts by Ed Degenaro, well then I bought one! Talk about two guys you'd never think would touch anything but a tube amp. There's a recent post over at the Fractal forum that Dean Parks is now using it. If it didn't before, that would have certainly sealed the deal for me.

I'm just scratching the surface with this thing and I'm just realizing the potential. Seems like after a bit of tweakage, anything, and I mean anything I throw at it works great. PSG, lap steels, and even Dobro with the Fishman Jerry Douglas bridge and stompbox setup. The other night I took an Epiphone SG knockoff/beater and put a nut riser on it and had hours of just stupid-crazy fun.

Perhaps the most important thing though, is that imho, it has the vibe/feel/mojo of a great tube amp. But, it also has the ability to bend and twist in directions you just can't go in the physical world.

Dan, I'll be looking forward to your take on it once you give it a try.

This is without a doubt the best unit of it's type. It is expensive but well worth it especially in the studio.

Every modeler I've used, and it's a few, had problems if you hit a real low note and then try to play high notes over the sustaining low one. The high notes sound like frying eggs, and like they're trying to take power away from the low one. Have they got that one sussed out? Even tube amps don't get this one right all the time, especially the little ones.

David,
I've had no problems with notes in the lower register sustaining and playing over top with the higher register. I'm getting great results with both clean and over-driven sounds.

-L

Even if you throw the killer modeling out the window...

You have NEVER tried an FX processor with effects this high quality. Eventide may have some that are close...but I consider the AXE-FX to be the extreme top of the game processor after trying nearly everything in the world.

I had settled on TC Electronic stuff, but after I got the AXE-FX....everything else seemed like such a toy (in both abundance of options, sound quality, tweakability, etc)

Is there an expression pedal with good enough feel to use as a volume pedal with the Axe FX? I'd like to use the volume pedal in the middle of the chain of effects without going through additional D/A and A/D conversions and latency.

I had the ultra at my home for a test drive.
Now I'm gonna buy one. (6 months waitingtime)
Its the most amazing amp/efx unit you ever heard. And yes, you can loop a Hilton in the chain wherever you like it.

regards, Johan

After doing some more reading I decided that I can use my H10K as an expression pedal with a little modification. I was planning to add a switch to bypass the buffer anyway, just to see how a passive pedal compares to a buffered one, and I've already changed to a 500K pot.

That is likely enough to work as an expression pedal, although some controllers don't work as well with a log taper pot. I'm thinking of changing one of the outputs to a stereo (tip positive) expression pedal output, and with the addition of one resistor I can flatten out the log taper.

A Hilton of course could be used in the FX loop, which does cause the signal to go through an additional D/A and A/D process, and ties up the second output which could otherwise be used to feed a monitor.

Old threat, some more users of the Ultra Axe FX2?
JJ

I bought the new Axe Fx2 with 2 Q12A speakers. I'm into programming the set now. As I can say: Wow!! No limits in sounds, playes like a real tube amp. Axe is 4.5 kg, cabinets 16 kg. I will soon post some sounds.'And yes, I can get the nicest steelsounds I want, including a little Walter, Session 400, Fender Twin with JBL, Milkman, it's a matter of tweakin...
http://www.fractalaudio.com/p-axe-fx-ii ... cessor.php

http://uk.matrixamplification.com/speak ... nitor.html

JJ

My advice to everyone that's happy with their rig is don't change your rig. I sold my Fractal because of the lack of a good editor. I didn't feel like messing with the menus. Hopefully by now they have built an interface that runs on a tablet. It sounded nice though. I took it direct in the studio and fooled several producers who though it was an amp.