The Steel Guitar Forum

Another thread that has amused me for days was the one about right hand technique, saying that Jeff Newman recommends that you hold your picking arm close to your side. You guys were talking about holding a magazine between your arm and your ribs while you play, to train yourselves to hold the arm close. Why? Seems so silly and unnecessary to me. Like trying to play the pedals and knee levers with your knees touching and your feet flat on the floor! Maybe it's because I don't use picks and play with my nails instead, but it just seems like such peculiar advice. If you can pick the string or strings that you want on time with a good tone, who cares where your elbow is?

I guess my point is that learning steel is so difficult and intimidating as it is that I resent any "teachings" that make it seem harder or more stressful for students. Get comfortable, do what you want, forget what other people do or say or play -- just try to make it sound and feel good to you! I too used to preach to my students about "proper technique" until one day I saw a guy with no arms who played guitar with his toes! Meditate on that one, my friends! It sounded good! Who would dare lecture that guy on his bad technique?

Jeff Newman was probably the greatest teacher of our time .Also one of the super players of our time. His methods worked great for a lot of players. He would also tell you that what ever works for you do it. He once told me that my chord chart to a song looked like a "Chinese Laundry Ticket". I said" it works for me." He said "Then do it." Sure miss having Jeff around. Jody.

If you don't get the "why", and you are satisfied with your playing, then rock on. But don't discourage newcomers from proper technique. It was also stated in the other thread, it's not for everybody. Seems it's not for you. So enjoy what you do.

I'm with Jody.

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One of the problems with teaching is the do-what-feels-right method versus a do-it-this-way method. Most often that applies to technique. Sometimes, but not always, doing what feels right or natural at first will come back to haunt you later because the habit you've developed now won't let you advance any farther. Or, at best, you have to work very hard. For example, some ways of holding the bar, although "natural feeling", will ultimately keep you from having a good vibrato. And then there's blocking - one of the hardest things to master.

So, when Jeff recommended you keep your arm close to your body then why did he teach that? My guess is that there was a darn good reason because he always had good reasoning for all his teaching. I miss him.

Barry, I would suggest a beginner will not feel comfortable with any attempt, molding technique. As a teacher, to simply say if you feel comfortable, just do it, is irresponsible. The idea behind having your right arm tucked in, will allow your right hand a better chance for cleaner, accurate hits. Lets say you are noodling between strings 10 to 6 and you need to pick a few double stops at strings 3 and 4, 1 & 2, finishing at 4 and 5. If your right arm elbow is perched out, most likely your fingers will be stretching for those upper strings. With your arm tucked in, there is more available mobility by simply moving your arm forward. There is less finger travel allowing for more solid hits and opportunities for tonal changes. Indeed, pedal steel is difficult as I know first hand, being a committed student myself. Dedication and desire will eventually overcome those funky rudiments.

Who needs teachers??? Do whatever you feel comfy with...

Johan (teacher)

To me there is no right or wrong in techniques as long as it doesn't hurt or destroys your hands (think about Carpal Tunnel Syndrome) and it brings you the tone and the sound and movements you have in mind.
A good teacher has an open mind to that and helps you through your mental, musical and body-movement-blokkades

I'm a self-taught guitarist who has happened to carve out a half-decent if somewhat strange picking style on 6-string. But with steel, I was suffering in both the speed and accuracy department until I adopted Newman's right hand technique about eight years ago. Until then I was doing "the claw" which really limits your dexterity. Once I put in a bunch of hours just repeating the right hand technique and practicing my rear off, it stuck. And I'm glad I did it, because now I can grab those grips and also do runs and licks with accuracy and authority. It really aligned my playing. You can see my right hand in my avatar. It is literally trained to go this way now, with no conscious thought at all. With the thumb all the way out there, you can do so much.

I actually enjoyed the discipline of Jeff as well. His suit and strict demeanour really woke me up. It's like boot camp or something. He makes you feel as if the pedal steel is the most important instrument in the world.

As I said, I'm a do-it-yourself musician for the most part, but Newman's right hand is one technique that I've embraced - and I attribute it to my advancement on the instrument. I've received compliments at steel shows about my right hand, and I always credit Jeff in response.

Johan (teacher):D , while you are teaching, teach what has worked for you, obviously, you are not a beginner. As your student matures, what may have been "right" from the gitgo may evolve to a new "right."

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Barry Hyman wrote: Get comfortable, do what you want, forget what other people do or say or play -- just try to make it sound and feel good to you!

Sounds a bit 'wing and prayer' to me. Surely an accomplished player and teacher can give useful pointers which will shortcut you to playing with good tone and useful technique.

Jeff Newman's RH Alpha was a very useful video for me to get a relaxed arm and consistent picking and palm blocking technique. Reckon it saved me a lot of figuring out.

In my case it doesn't quite work because I have unusually double jointed thumbs (think Jaco Pastorius), and I'm also committed to using a pick on my ring finger. In saying that, I think Jeff basically just wanted to isolate bad habits and overcome them. He was a great teacher I'm sure! It's just that not everybody is built the same, or has the same vision of how they want to play.

hey folks give Barry a break, he just thinks he is a better teacher than Jeff was .
and we all know how great Jeff was, so Barry must be the greatest teacher that ever lived

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Shane, I agree about the hostility being unnecessary, but the title is also a bit hostile: "Beware of Teachers!"

But yes, it it doesn't constitute sarcasm and such. I think we can have a sensible debate without getting snarky. Wait now.....this is an internet forum. Whoops!

Jeff was a great teacher, so is Joe Wright with a total different approach.
So....... ???
JJ

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Hold your knife and fork in a matched grip. Just because you may be able to cut your steak or eat your pasta like that does not make it expedient, economical, or give you nice, bite sized pieces.

A little lesson in the proper use of the tools of the trade and proper posture goes a long way toward keeping a new player from a lifetime of bad habits that can impede his progress.

Like i told someone about Presidents. Just cause they are smart, they aint always right. I have kinda had this conversation with younger folks who say "Yea my dady does this for a living, but I can't work with him, he wants it his way". Well his way is right for him, but maybe not for everyone. I also say, damn, if I could have my dad back I would gladly do it his way

Shane Glover has it right,don't tell someone they can't do this or that.About twenty five years ago was playing guitar in a band with a steel player that was a hard core SOB, I alway loved the steel,Ask him if maybe he could sho me a few things on the steel,He told me to forget it,it's TOO hard for you to learn,He should'nt have told a hard headed,opinionated young whippersnapper that.Bought me a steel,in less than a year I had his job,Never had a formal teacher,Sure I have what some would call bad habits,but I'm still picking after all these years. I've seen some famous pickers that have unorthodox ways of doing things,did'nt slow them down. if it works for YOU,don't worry about it. DYK?BC.

Go to Joe Wright's web site and take a look at his right hand...then play the video.
http://pedalsteel.com/joe/

Personally, I think Jeff, in his own way, was trying to standardize a picking technique for us to use. It worked for him and Buddy and Hal and Weldon, so, I think he was trying to set a presidence to go by. But, not everyone can play that way. I can't, never could. I play with a so called flat hand, finger picking style most of the time. I had been playing finger style six string for years and could never re- learn a new technique. Jeff saw me play like that, and said don't fix what ain't broke. You're getting the job done, so, leave it at that. What I'm getting at is,that, were all different with different body types, hand sizes and hand structure and learning capacities, so, arms in or out, flat hands or raised index finger knuckles when picking, whatever works for YOU, use it and progress.You can take instructions from a teacher, but, if they're contrary to being comfortable for you, explain it to him or her and try to find a happy medium. There are only a few set rules to playing a steel, why confuse them with impossible feats of nature.