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Topic: Microphonic Fender/Sho-Bud Pickup: Revisited |
Ian Sutton
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 5 Aug 2009 6:58 pm |
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A couple weeks back, I started a thread querying whether or not the pickup in my Fender/Sho-Bud S-10 was microphonic as it was making a lot of noise. A local shop potted the pickup for me and it sounds the same to me. Before I go for the re-wind and/or replacement, I recorded a quick sample of what it sounds like to see if maybe some of you experts can hear what's going on, is it the pickup? Do i just not have good technique? Am I not picking hard enough?
I recorded direct into my audio interface using Cakewalk SONAR 8, and left the signal dry with the exception of a small bit of compression to take the edge off of it. I apologize in advance for my lackluster playing - i just got the thing a month ago, so I'm working it out.
http://www.filefreak.com/pfiles/12518/Pickup%20Trouble.mp3
I look forward to your opinions.
Ian |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2009 7:39 pm
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"Not picking hard enough" would be a *good* thing, as it gives your playing dynamics - you can dig in when you need to without pedals or having to crank up the volume (when others pick up one of my guitars on stage and try it they get blasted - my amps run REALLY hot and I play very lightly).
Is the hum on the recoding the noise you're talking about? If so it points to something other than a pickup problem - bad grounding at the guitar, bad interface ground, polarity reversal somewhere in the chain, computer monitor interference, dimmers, fluorescent lights - those are all typical hum problems with single-coils (and even some humbuckers if it's a power-source problem.
Because other than the hum, it sounds fine to me. In fact, it sounds pretty darned good and I wouldn't mess with it except to get rid of the hum.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 5 Aug 2009 7:53 pm
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I hear 60 cycle hum and bar noise, but do not hear pickup microphonics. For example, I don't hear the sound of the changer coming through.
What makes you think that the pickup is microphonic?
The Wikipedia article on "Mains Hum" has a clip of 60 cycle hum about halfway down the page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_hum
If it's that type of tone that's bugging you, rewinding a single coil pickup isn't gonna fix it. You would either need to eliminate the noise source, somehow shield against it, or use a humbucking pickup.
On the other hand, it it's the bar noise that's bugging you, you may want to consider a different bar or different strings. There are semi-flat strings that are pretty quiet like Frenchy's Steel Mill strings, and sometimes a highly polished chrome bar like a BJS can reduce this somewhat. Another thing is that nickel windings are a bit softer than stainless steel windings - I personally prefer stainless, but I have found the nickel a hair more quiet in some cases. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2009 5:20 am
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Dave added everything additional can think of.
I just don't hear a pickup issue at all.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Ian Sutton
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 6 Aug 2009 5:33 am
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Initially, I was thinking the hum was the typical 60Hz AC hum, but before potting I was getting lots of pedal and body noise through the guitar. Now that seems to be dramatically reduced, however, I seem to get the same hum from both my amp, as well as when plugged direct into my audio interface/computer.
As far as the wiring is concerned, the pickup is wired straight to the output jack on the guitar - is there anything I can do there to help ground the hum? Thanks
Ian |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 6 Aug 2009 7:35 am
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| Quote: |
| Initially, I was thinking the hum was the typical 60Hz AC hum, but before potting I was getting lots of pedal and body noise through the guitar. Now that seems to be dramatically reduced, however, I seem to get the same hum from both my amp, as well as when plugged direct into my audio interface/computer. |
Yup - potting can help pedal and body noise by reducing microphonics, but has no impact on electromagnetic interference.
| Quote: |
| As far as the wiring is concerned, the pickup is wired straight to the output jack on the guitar - is there anything I can do there to help ground the hum? |
Make sure you have a functioning string ground. To test for this, simply use an ohmmeter to see if you have continuity between your strings and the ground side of your output jack. If you don't have continuity, you can wire the bridge to that ground leg.
But I get much better results from the string ground and body shielding with a 6-string guitar than for a pedal steel. Some previous threads on this:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=163033
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=117493
By all means, make sure you have a functioning string ground, but my single coil equipped steels all hum pretty badly in a noisy room, especially if the gain is turned up. I love the sound of single-coil pickups, but I have to have some guitars with humbuckers too.
I use my volume pedal as a noise gate - when I'm not playing, I just shut it down. But this kind of noise can be very annoying on a quiet passage when I'm using the volume pedal to sustain a note by increasing the volume as the note decays. The level of annoyance depends on the signal-to-noise ratio. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 6 Aug 2009 8:07 am
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| From listening to the clip, it sounds like you're using a line-driver or a compressor of some sort. (The sound is bland, almost artificial.) Your timing and intonation are good, though. So, I'd say "leave the pickup alone", and concentrate, instead, on your hand techniques, and on the use of the volume pedal. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 6 Aug 2009 9:00 am
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I agree with Donny - I'd just play the guitar, and worry about the pickup much later. If you are using a compressor, I'd just turn it off. I think they tend to add noise and interfere with volume pedal technique.
If the noise bugs you that much, make sure you turn off all the sources of electromagnetic interference you can - starting with all the nearby computers, monitors, TVs, and so on. |
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Ian Sutton
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 7 Aug 2009 6:07 am
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Hey Everyone,
So I did a little reading and research per everyone's suggestions and first plugged my steel into a little battery-powered amp. I only got what I would consider normal single coil hum, I was happy. Then I plugged it into my Fender Princeton 112 and it hummed like it didn't know the words. I started experimenting with different amp/guitar orientations and different breakers in the house and finally found one that quieted it down to a normal level. I can't tell you how much more fun it was to play last night when it was a much quieter guitar.
Thank you all for your help and suggestions, I can't wait to get some serious playing time in this weekend!
Ian |
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