The Steel Guitar Forum

So if I'm getting that zing-y sitar sound when I slant the bar, is generally due to too much or too little pressure, too large or small diameter of bar, or some other factor(s)??

It usually happens when there's an excessive length of bar contacting the string. Turn your bar completely parallel to the strings and note the sound.

Parallel to the string??? Wouldn't that mean the length of the bar was laying on the string?? Maybe perpendicular is what you mean???

Sorry Mike, not trying to be a smart-butt, just a newbie trying to understand.

Yes, Stephen, if you turn your bar parallel to the string you'll observe the sitar-like sound it makes. This is what's happening when you get that zingy sound doing slants, although it's on a much smaller scale. Sometimes it's nearly impossible to avoid.

The zing happens more on adjacent strings because of the radical slant required. In that case, press harder on the bar. It shouldn't happen as much on strings that are not adjacent, like strings 1 & 3, 2 & 4, etc.

Zing went the strings of my heart....

thanks for the replies.

so, how do you minimize the offending sound? I always feel like my efforts to avoid it is hit or miss. Mostly miss.

The same applies to slants as it does to harmonics
(chimes). Go for it as if you're never going to miss it. Being timid is the worst way you can approach these techniques.

What size bar are you using?
Too winky a bar could be the cause of your problem.

I have lots of trouble with slants, but then I have lots of trouble with right hand technique and almost every aspect of the lap steel.

I currently am using an old bar left to me by my uncle. It is a stevens bar as it says on one end, and on the other end it has a diamond shape with the letters AP&M co inside the diamond. I know its old.

It has the trough along the top like a dobro bar.
I played with a bullet bar and it seemed to bet a lot better.

Any recommendations of and relatively inexpensive bullet type bar? I've seen the Dunlop 920 and 921 that are in a decent price range.

Slowly getting better, but man I got a long way to go.

Erv Niehaus wrote:What size bar are you using?
Too winky a bar could be the cause of your problem.

Normally, I use an SP-1. But I've also tried a big ol' Dunlap bullet (1") and still got the zing, and more trouble manipulating the bar.

Chris,
A 1" bar is definitely overkill when it comes to lap steel. When I was playing a lot of lap steel my favorite bar was a tapered bar. I have a couple made by "Chase". They used to be real popular but I doubt if anyone is making them these days.
A fellow forumite sent me one a while ago that he had made out of stainless steel and it is a good'en.

BTW: When is the last time you changed strings?
Sometimes you can get a weird sound out of a bad string.

Hey Chris -- As I recall, you prefer six-stringers, yes? I'd recommend a 3/4" wide bar, especially if you're playing your Melobar lap (still have that?).

For grip/control, I use a Dunlop "JB" bar. Yes, there are better and more expensive bars out there, but I like the JB (.75" wide by 2.75" length) because they're ubiquitous, inexpensive and just plain work. If one has very large hands however, this bar may not work.

I take the red plastic out of the end of mine (just drill a hole in the middle and use a screwdriver to pop it out); it gives me even better control for backward slants by putting the tip of my thumb in there. A fringe benefit of this also is that I rarely have any 'bar squirt' issue; plus the smaller size bar is perfect for six-string guitars.

As some others have mentioned, bar pressure is also definitely a factor in minimizing string buzzzz, and that's just a feel thing.

Namaste.

String height makes a difference as well. If your nut isn't cut right you'll get some buzzin'.

Blake

Erv Niehaus wrote:Chris,
A 1" bar is definitely overkill when it comes to lap steel. When I was playing a lot of lap steel my favorite bar was a tapered bar. I have a couple made by "Chase". They used to be real popular but I doubt if anyone is making them these days.

Frank Ford makes a tapered bar modeled on the Chase bar, but with more weight-- around 5.5 oz. I got mine from Gryphon Music.

Blake Wilson wrote:If your nut isn't cut right you'll get some buzzin'.

Blake

I think I'd be buzzin' even if it was cut right!

The minimum buzz occurs when bar and string meet at 90 degrees. When slanting with a bullet bar, it's possible to get cleaner break angle, on the top string only, by fretting that string with the tip of the bar at just the point where it stops being cylindrical and curves into its nose.

This is tricky to accomplish, but it can give you considerable improvement on a buzzy slant: the top string will ring clear, and palliate the buzz of the unaffected lower string(s).

I often use large homemade delrin bars, and the bigger the bar, the more the buzzing when you slant. Think of a 16" diameter bar - it'd be almost flat on the strings, all buzz. A 3/4" or even 5/8" bar ought to help. I'm making someone an intentionally-sitaring bar, with a variable radius, so you can control the degree of buzzing.

I'm a bluegrass dobro player who likes slants, and know that zingy sound all too well! Using a sharp-edged bluegrass bar, the zing seems to happen on the upper of the two strings being played. The playable slants for me are one- and two-fret slants on alternate strings (1 & 3, 2 & 4, 3 & 5...), and one-fret slants on adjacent strings. I've had no luck with two-fretters on ajacent strings

A way to remove the zing (that works for me) is to _not_ place the bar tip over or beyond the top of the string. That is, let the bar touch the near _side_ of the string farther away from your body. It's a subtle difference, but I can get zingless two-fret alt-string slants as long as the bar doesn't wander too far "over" that farther string. Thus done, there's no particular extra bar pressure required.

As for bullet bars on a dobro, I like the 3/4" Dunlop straight bullet bar for Sol Hoopii-style Hawaiian playing (as if I can play Sol Hoopii-style -- I can, at 1/3 the tempo ) This bar feels smaller and a little lighter than my Scheerhorn BG bar, is inexpensive, plenty polished, and is a blast because of the bullet end. For this kind of playing, you don't need the sharp edge (no need for pulloffs, amazingly). It wouldn't be much good for a lot of bluegrass playing though, lacking that edge.