The Steel Guitar Forum

I have a E9 pedal steel. I know where another E9 is fairly cheap (with 3 pedals and 2 knee levers) Can you buy a an E9 and change it to a C6?

What type of guitar is it? Pro or student model?

You can use any tuning you want within the limits of the changer and string gauge. Some of the old student models were fixed though and probably wouldn't allow enough travel or any other modifications. Possibly the early guitars that use single tree mechanics or other oddball systems would pose a problem adding components.

I don't know of any reason you couldn't put C6 on any modern professional triple raise, double lower all pull guitar though. Just make sure it has enough pedals and levers to effect all the changes you want.

Be prepared to do a lot of setup work adding/moving pull trains and adjusting stops, travel etc. Basically the same as setting up a pedal guitar from scratch.

Most pedal steels have 5 pedals on the C tuning, but you may feel you can get by with 3 basic changes.

Of course you can make lots of music without any pedals or levers at all.

I have done this on several single neck guitars . As long as it is a Pro type guitar that the set up is changeable You can get by with it. I put pedals 8 , 5 , & 6 on the floor . I put 7 on a knee as well as the standard C 6th knee. That gets the minimun with 3 & 2 that is needed to play a ton of courses. Some have done away with pedal 4 but if you have another knee lever it can be added as well.

If your guitar can accommodate the changes I say, "do it". I came out of the C6th closet about 10 years ago and changed my S12 E9/B6 universal to an S11 B6th only and I have no regrets. I would advise you to add the change that raises your high C to C#. This allows you to play country sounding stuff when you want it. People LOVE the sound of C6th and nobody has ever said to me, "I wish you sounded more Nashville".
I should say though I have added other changes that give me that twangy Nashville sound. I have 3 pedals in the 1,2 and 3 position that treat the B triad the same way the 3 pedals on an E9 treat the E triad. With that I can really sound old style country when I want to but I rarely use them anymore. Good luck, Don

Some of the old student models were fixed though

This statement seems to imply that such a limitation is not the case with newer student models. Is that true?? Newbie to the list, but I think I'm in love with the instrument. I can't seem to stop thinking about how I can get my hands on one of these guitars, without chopping up my collection (tantamount to removing limbs , for me). I've been watching the list for a few months now, and modified my cheap acoustic guitar to play on my lap, but it's not the same, and it's just making me more crazy about it.

I have to say that the carter starters for 6/700 bucks don't even register anymore, because I've been thinking "what the heck would I want with an instrument that is stuck in one tuning, essentially..."

please to have sensei disabuse me of any mis-conceptions that I have developed about these junior sleds, which appear to wash in and out of peoples lives in the span from one harvest moon to the next.

Now I've really had an aversion to cheesie instruments most of my life, but the statement I quoted is causing me to wonder if I should reconsider, as a means of getting in the game since I don't have a car to trade for one. (not that cars are even as great as a steel guitar).

-and no offense directed at Carter SG's either. I'm sure the starters are fine instruments to give a 15 y/o to make sure they will take to it before investing, but I like to think I have "mad knowledge of self." -so to speak.

Sorry for any confusion John. I'm really not sure about present day mfg. student guitars. There are representatives among us here though that can shed some light on the subject, I'm sure.

Many student models were of such construction that you could not add components or even move them around. That was my caveat in regards to Keith's ?

could not add components or even move them around

Thanks. That's precisely the trap I'm hoping to avoid.

Aw shucks. Maybe it's time to get the hacksaw and a bottle of wiskey...

thanks. I have never played a C6, what is it better suited for? western swing? blues? etc.

C6 is best for Western Swing, jazz, and jazzy blues. I think many of us prefer E9, especially 12-string or universal, for hard blues and rock, because it is closely related to the common E (or D) open tuning of blues and rock slide guitar. The Sacred Steelers use some variation of E7 for their R&B/Gospel.

The Cth tuning is taylor made for Jazz standards, Hawaiian, blues and western swing. Don

Conversely, I use B6 (dropped a notch from C6 and with a slightly different open-string order. It's developed from Sneaky Pete's 8-string B6 and works really well on a 10-string - ESPECIALLY for rock and blues, where I've found both "stock" C6 and this oddball B6 to be more logically laid out:



Once in a while I throw on another rod and raise the 6th string a full step as well - it seems redundant with RKR but in some songs it's simply in a better place as far as leg position - for me anyway, but I probably don't even sit in the "right" place.

It has the "A&B" -type pedals of E9 and the third pedal is far more usable in rock/blues (with its 7th change). As I recall Paul Franklin primarily uses his C6 neck playing rockers.


One really nice thing for former (or current) 6-string players is that the entire B6 neck lays out in a similar fashion to a 6-string, as does the lower register. Press the A&B (I tend to call them simply "1 & 2" to avoid confusion with E9) pedals and that "pedals down" position matches "E" up and down the neck: 3rd fret is G, 5th is A, 10th is D, 12th is E etc.

After you mess with it for just a few days most players have a "lightbulb-over-the-head" moment when it becomes crystal clear - and then even a beginner can find chords for uncomplicated songs easily. Play various banjo rolls and/or single-string stuff instead of the prototypical "moving harmonies" of traditional steel and you can fake a LOT of blues and rock. Then add a low-powered tube amp with a good (not a cheap Boss or Digitech) overdrive, a flanger and/or phase shifter and use delay instead of reverb. Reverb tends to wash out and muddy things in a rock context, especially when distortion is used.

I use two delays - one early inthe chain that's very short with few repeats; one last in the chain at about 250-300ms, mixed low and with long repeats. Sounds "big" without reverb's inherent clutter.

The only missing link is a tone control, as most distorted rock tones sound better with a little treble rolloff - but NOT at the amp. Fenders have volume/tone controls, which makes it easy - on my GFI I use a Steeldriver II, which has controls. They're placed in a terrible position, but still help.

I have an S-12 Sierra that I've thought about converting to a C6th machine. Seems like it would be a great Jazs/Blues axe. I would have my twin Emmons for gigs where I need both tunings.

Thoughts?