The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi folks...
Im new at playing live. So far my amp has not been mic'd, and I get 'you're too soft' then I can't hear myself so now I'm 'too loud'. Sheesh.

I want to start micing my amp and running it through the PA, but Im a little nervous.

Can I keep my amp at a reasonable volume so I can hear myself on stage, then the sound guy jacks it up for the room and my bandmates in the monitor?

I play much better when Im comfortable with my volume; I don't hesitate as much...
any experience would be WONDERFUL!!!!!

best,
steve

Well, there are two schools of thought on this. I like to put my amp away from me in the back line, or at least at the same stage depth as the guitar amps. With my volume pedal I match my volume to the stage volume. If I can't hear myself, neither can anyone else on stage or in the audience, I'm simply not playing loud enough. If I can hear myself, then so can everyone else, at least on stage and in the front of the audience. This works whether you are miked or not. And if you are miked, your volume is about the same as the guitar's, so there is no special problem for someone out front mixing the sound.

But the more common arrangement these days seems to be for the steeler to put his amp close behind him, on a stand or tilted so it points to his head. That's his monitor for himself, but possibly no one else can hear him, on stage or in the audience. The amp is then miked, and it is completely up to the sound guy how much steel is in the monitors and the mains. More often than not, when that's the arrangement, I can't hear the steeler when I am in the audience. The guitar players always play loud enough for everyone to hear them, whether they are miked or not.

With my way, in order to hear myself, I have to play loud enough for everyone on stage and in the front of the audience to hear me, miked or not. If I'm miked, and the sound guy cuts me down and the guitars up in the mains, there's nothing I can do about that. But at least I am starting from a volume level that matches the guitars. If you put your amp close by and pointed exclusively at your own head, you are the only one who can hear the steel. Everyone else on stage will be projecting louder, both on stage and out front.

It helps with my arrangement that I use an amp head (Dual Showman Reverb), so I can keep the amp next to me for adjustments, and run speaker cable to my speaker(s) wherever I want to put them.

Hi Steve,
I found that having the amp tilted up and facing me always worked best.
Either off to one side, or at a diagonal by my right foot.
That's assuming there's a mic on it.

That way I could hear myself REALLY well.
It also meant I could keep the amp volume lower, making life better for the audience, the sound man and my band mates.

I toured like that for many years, before going to in ear monitors with a Profex II instead of an amp.

I've always had trouble hearing my amp when it's placed behind me ... maybe 'cause my ears face forwards!

Just my 2 cents worth.
Lee

p.s.
The "amp in front" thing isn't new, I think I got the idea after seeing the Doobie Brothers doing it.

Hi Steve, I see that your in Kitchener. If you can, come out to the Corral the last weekend of this month. You can see how my set up works on stage. If you come on Sat afternoon for the matinee bring your picks and sit in.

Thanks, gents.
I will try this!

Russ, I've sent you a PM.
s.

Steve,
Unless it's a very small venue, with a small band, I go with the "small amp-positioned so I can hear it" approach. I get my sound, and the rest is the Sound Tech's responsibility. Band members hear as much of me as they need thru their monitors.

I usually play in a large band that features vocal harmonies and tight musical arrangements. As such, keeping the stage volume low is a requirement.

If my amp needed to be loud enough for our keyboardist, on the other side of the stage, with drums and bass positioned between us, to hear it, it would be too loud for me.

We are in London June 19. You are welcome to a technical tour.

Info on that and other dates at www.BlueRodeoTribute.com (also some live video)

Steve,

Everyone is offering very good advice. Another thing to consider may be how you EQ your sound for different venues. Playing loud is great, but being deaf I'm guessing isn't.... What sounds good coming from your amp when you're playing alone isn't usually the sound that's going to mix best with the band. It's pretty typical to roll off quite a bit of lows, between 100-150 if you can. This will help to keep you from competing with the bass for frequencies. It will also help you to have more of your own place in the mix. A good sound guy can do some of this, but how often do you get a really good sound guy.... Experiment with this and record the band from the front of the house if possible. That's the only real way to hear what's coming out of the mains.

-Jeff

I have thought about taking a Ipod along plug it in your amp with an adapter,and set my volume level and go back to the rear of the venue to see what the sound man has cooked up. It could have some steel playing on it.At least you could see if you were in the mix.

I play with my amp on the floor about three feet behind my packseat. I've found that having an amp facing you isn't the best way to do it if you're not miked. If you are miked it's OK as the sound man can add some clarity but when an amp is facing the person's head, he (she) has a tendency to make it too pleasing to themselves and out front it'll be muddy. One of my old friends (a fellow forumite) used to have his amp on one of those restaurant tray stands aimed directly at his head and he always had a very muddy sound out front. When he started putting the amp lower his tone out front improved dramatically. I've also found that when the amp is on the floor and the guitar player gets too loud that I can "crank 'er up" and not blow my head off!.........JH in Va.

I've been playing with one group of guys since the early 1970's. It's a 5-piece band with two guitars, bass, drums, and steel. Like David D. said, we always line up our amps at the back of the stage, on either side of the drummer. On one side it's steel and guitar and on the other side it's bass and guitar. We can hear each other's amps quite well that way. I play as loud as the guitarist that's next to me. If the venue is large enough to require micing the amps, we just put one mic on each side of the stage in front of the amps, one suspended over the drums and one in front of the kick drum. Those 4 mics pick up everything nicely and get the sound out through the mains, reinforcing what's coming out of the amps. There is no sound tech, so it's an easy way to set it and leave it alone. We only run the vocals through the monitors.

Lee

I have thought about taking a Ipod along plug it in your amp with an adapter,and set my volume level and go back to the rear of the venue to see what the sound man has cooked up. It could have some steel playing on it.At least you could see if you were in the mix.

PLEASE DON´T!
Here´s why:

1: You can´t have an iPod play along with the band to see how you´re placed in the overall mix. Even assumed that your band could play along with it, it´ll never have the same volume as you, as your own picking will always change with the band´s energy.

2: The mix during soundcheck and later on at night will always be VERY different:
Empty places always sound much more reverberant and worse than crowded venues. A good soundman will adapt the mix differently in those two situations to suit the different acoustic requirements.

3: Concentrate on why YOU are there and you can do best: play steel guitar. Don´t distract your mind by doing another man´s job .
Being a professional sound engineer myself, I always stick to only playing when I gig myself.
I NEVER go out and listen, this is only getting on my own and the soundguy´s nerves...
Leave the sound job to the sound people!
You wouldn´t let them tell you what licks to play, either.
This is not meant in an offensive way, but please be cooperative and treat the guy as a member of the band.

4: Best in my opinion (from working on both sides of the faders) is a fairly close positioning of your amp with just as much volume to be real comfortable. Keep "acoustic pollution " on stage to a minimum.

5. Most important :
If you don´t trust your soundengineer, get (and pay) another one that you feel confident with.

I strongly agree with Pit, especially point #3.

I strive to be the best I can be, and let others do their jobs.