Opinions on pickups (Valco string-through vs C Christian)

Lap steels, resonators, multi-neck consoles and acoustic steel guitars

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James Mayer
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Opinions on pickups (Valco string-through vs C Christian)

Post by James Mayer »

I've sold a few things and am unwisely looking to mod a lap steel when I should be saving money. :)

My frankensteel is a Fouke Indy Rail with a core slab of mahogany (they are usually hollow) with a multibender system, string-through mod, and locking tuners. Yeah, I can't seem to quit.

The current pickup is a Kent Armstrong humbucker with coil-tap switch. I'm not all that keen on the humbucker sound and the coil-tap single coil sound is pretty week as is usually the case with tapped humbuckers (or so I've read).



A pickup that I really like is one that I got on a vintage 60's teisco. It's a single coil but is slightly louder than the aforementioned humbucker. It's also more bold and has a better singing tone. I've noticed that it doesn't push my tube preamp into overdrive as easily as the lesser volumed humbucker. The Teisco has an ideal "Hawaiian" sound, at least to me. It also has very low friction volume and tone pots that have far superior curves. If anyone knows what pots they used in these vintage Teisco's, please let me know.

Image

So, I dont' want to butcher the Teisco for the pickup, but I'd like to find something with similar character to fit in the humbucker slot of my Fouke.

After reading many descriptions, the Vintage Vibe humbucker sized "Charlie Christian" single-coils seem like they could work:
http://www.vintagevibeguitars.com/windo ... deWin.html


Also, the Lollar string-through Valco looks interesting. However, it's $$ and the opinions I've read of these old pickups rave about how they sound dirty for raunchy bluesy stuff. Not really what I think of with the Teisco pickup. How are the cleans on the Valcos?

I put a Lindy Fralin strat single coil in my cheapo Artisan and it improved clarity but sounded pretty sterile. I need something with clarity and character.

And go.......
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James Mayer
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Post by James Mayer »

bump!
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Chris Gilchrist
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Post by Chris Gilchrist »

I've got a CC lap steel pickup from Vintage Vibe. It has a really big, fat clean sound - I think it's quite different from the Valco style pickups. It might be what you're looking for. I can send you a clip of it if you're interested.
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Roman Sonnleitner
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Post by Roman Sonnleitner »

I can kind of answer your question, but not precisely...

I've got two of the Vintage Vibe CC-style pickups - but unfortunately NOT in a lap steel - one is the HB-sized model in the neck position on a Thinline Tele, the other is the narrow "CC Rider" in the neck spot on a solidbody Tele (BTW, those are not "real" Charlie Christian-pickups, they are kind of a cross between a P90 and a "real" one...).

And I've got a Supro Supreme lap steel from 1952, with a string-thru pickup at the bridge, and another lap steel with a Lollar Chicago Steel 8-string pickup (the Chicago Steel is supposed to emulate the sound of the Valco string-thru PU, but with a different kind of construction - and they do really sound very similar), also at the bridge.

Now, bearing in mind that my pickups are mounted on different types of guitars (2 lap steels, and 1 Thinline and one solidbody electric guitar), and in different spots (neck vs. bridge position) here's how I'd describe them:

The VV CC-styles are very BIG-sounding pickups, slightly dark/jazzy, but absolutely NOT muffled or muddy, just a bit darker), very clean and clear (though they do have plenty of output and can easily goose an amp into overdrive); very wide-range, almost hi-fi (but without sounding sterile); very smooth sounding, they lack the abrasive, in-your-face aggressive sounds of their P90 brethren. If any pickup could be imagined wearing a tuxedo, the VVG CC could be the perfect candidate... 8)

Both the original Supro/Valco and the Lollar Chicago Steel (don't know how his string-thru remake would compare) are extemely different PUs from the CCs - where the CCs are slightly dark and smooth, the Valcos are extremely bright, brash and aggressive...
Both the string-thru and the Chicago Steel have ample amounts of treble frequencies, but they are not "twangy", this is more of an edgy, abrasive kind of treble; with both the lap steels these are on, even with clean settings you definitely have to roll back the tone pot quite a bit to get somewhat smoother sounds, but there's no way you could make them sound as relaxed and jazzy as the CCs - they are always very present, in-your-face.

So, if the CCs could be described as wearing tuxedos, the string-thru would be wearing torn jeans and a leather jacket... :twisted:
Last edited by Roman Sonnleitner on 18 May 2009 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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James Mayer
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Post by James Mayer »

Chris, yes please send me some clips! thejamesmayer@gmail.com

Roman, thanks for the great info. I'm thinking CC sounds like more my style for this project. Are they noisy at all?
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Roman Sonnleitner
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Post by Roman Sonnleitner »

PS: BTW, looking again at your description of what you're looking for, a clean, bright sound, singing, and with character, I guess the VVG CC would get you closer than the string-thru-types, whcih are much better suited to playing dirty, raunchy blues.
Maybe you could ask Pete Biltoft to slightly underwind your CC to get even more clarity; also, he usually ships his pickups with two sets of magnets which you can change yourself, you can choose between ceramic, Alnico 5, 3 or 3 - so that would leave you some room for experimentation.

BTW, I've also got one of his 8-string Stringmaster pickups (that's in the neck position of the same lap steel that has the Lollar Chicago Steel at the bridge), and I think it would also fit your description - clean and clear, singing; compared to the CC, it is a bit brighter; the CC is fuller/warmer/jazzier, the VVG Stringmaster-type has a leaner, more "Western Swing"-like tone...
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Roman Sonnleitner
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Post by Roman Sonnleitner »

James Mayer wrote: Are they noisy at all?
Depends on what you're used to...

They ARE real single coils, I guess noise-wise they are in the same league as P90s; humbuckers would be MUCH less noisy, but unless I'm playing right next to my computer monitor or beneath fluorescent lights, I don't find the CCs too noisy...
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John Allison
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Post by John Allison »

Definitely contact Pete at Vintage Vibes...
I have some custom CC's that I'm using for some consoles I'm putting together (and using one temporarily in my work horse lap steel). Absolutely monster tone...Choice of magnets...Should get you real close to the vintage sound you want. And they look simply the coolest!
John Allison
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James Mayer
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Post by James Mayer »

I just talked to Pete. After learning that I have a humbucker with coil-tap he recommended a double blade humbucker that can utilize the tap switch. I've always read that a tapped bucker doesn't sound as good as a true single-coil and my current tapped bucker certainly leaves a lot to be desired. He said he has a lot of success with getting a tapped bucker to sound good.

What do you guys think? tapped blade bucker with more flexibility or single coil CC?
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Twayn Williams
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Post by Twayn Williams »

James Mayer wrote:What do you guys think? tapped blade bucker with more flexibility or single coil CC?
If you can live with the hum, single coil all the way. If you can't live with the hum, the humbucker is a must.

Another possibility is one of the new generation of noiseless single-coil pups (though I tend to find them a little shrill in the bridge position of a lap steel, YMMV.) You might look into some of the new Fralin offers as well, like the split coil, noiseless p-90's and split blade strat pups.
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James Mayer
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Post by James Mayer »

Well, after talking to Pete at Vintage Vibe, I've decided to go with a custom blade humbucker. I've told him that the single-coil sound is my main concern and that the extra flexibility of the humbucker mode is a bonus. He's confident that he can get it right so I went with it. The fact that you get two magnet types and they are easily replaceable is pretty cool. Nice customer service over there.
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John Allison
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Post by John Allison »

You'll dig it!
If you can manage to get a nice fat single tone and have the option of a HB, too, that's great. You might consider a little 3 pos switch to be able to get either coil. The little bit of difference in distance from the bridge might give you a distinction in single coil sounds. I wonder if you can put different magnets on each coil?...if you could mix and match, you could definitely get 3 tones. That would be totally sweet. I gotta ask Pete about that.
John Allison
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James Mayer
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Post by James Mayer »

John Allison wrote:You'll dig it!
If you can manage to get a nice fat single tone and have the option of a HB, too, that's great. You might consider a little 3 pos switch to be able to get either coil. The little bit of difference in distance from the bridge might give you a distinction in single coil sounds. I wonder if you can put different magnets on each coil?...if you could mix and match, you could definitely get 3 tones. That would be totally sweet. I gotta ask Pete about that.
Doesn't look like it.

http://www.vintagevibeguitars.com/wirin ... cheroo.pdf
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John Allison
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Post by John Allison »

Maybe not...the stronger magnet might de-mangetize the weaker one.
Still, an interesting concept. Pete's a creative guy and very willing to do custom work. I bet he could come with something. Might be more costly in the long run than just getting two singles, though.
Whatever you get from him, I think you'll like it.
Good luck with the project.
John Allison
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Tom Pettingill
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Post by Tom Pettingill »

Might be a little late, but I noticed that Michael Lee Allen has a couple Teisco pickups for sale
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=158503

That said, I'll bet that Pete will wind you a great pup.
He built me a custom 8 string HB for my latest project that sound great. It uses individual magnets kind of like a Fender style or the old Gibson Console Grands. The tone is very sweet and is very much like a HB version of the Console Grand 8's that Lollar builds.
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