Thinking about buying a new guitar

Tim Pillow · Post by **Tim Pillow** » 16 May 2009 5:42 pm

Why is it when you ask a builder(s) that you want more than 9 knee levers and/or pedals they want to question you why you need so many? I don't get it. Please enlighten me.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 16 May 2009 7:16 pm

Curiosity?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 May 2009 8:18 pm

Well......why do you??

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 16 May 2009 8:22 pm

Could it be that the BUILDERS know more about the issue than do you!?

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 16 May 2009 9:39 pm

9 and 9 is hard to build. Anything over 9 x 10 is a real pain..

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 16 May 2009 10:32 pm

Because you don't need them. Its called moving the bar.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 17 May 2009 12:56 am

I know a lot of steelers that are really trying to load a steelguitar as full as possible, just in case there is need for it once in a lifetime. There is nothing wrong with it, it's a hobby. See it like someone is buying a Lamborgini to travel trough Paris

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 17 May 2009 4:20 am

What's wrong with a person wanting more than an average number of pedals and levers? After all, he's paying, it's his guitar, so he should get what he wants.

Some people are of the opinion that no pedals or levers are needed. Some people want more.

If a builder thinks he cannot or will not build the guitar the way the customer wants, the builder can refuse the order!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 May 2009 6:13 am

Tim Pillow wrote:Why is it when you ask a builder(s) that you want more than 9 knee levers and/or pedals they want to question you why you need so many? I don't get it. Please enlighten me.

I dunno, you'd have to ask them, but I do think that builders will go out of their way for a "special" player. I do know that if I were the builder, I'd only build such a guitar if I thought the buyer could handle it, if I knew that he was very accomplished and really needed all those pedals. Building an "overdressed general" for some hacker who can't play very well (but has a fistfull of cash) might well wind up being more trouble than it's worth.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 17 May 2009 6:46 am

I think, that, if you can afford the additional pedals and knee levers, there should should be no problem with the build, but, it takes more time and expertise to build such a steel. And, that means their production time will suffer and things will slow down... i.e. less steels, less money. Also, there may be teething problems with the design which will take longer to profect.
When I started to play, the standard for an S-10 was 3+4 and a D-10 was 8+4. Now, it's getting to be 4+5 and 9+5, because of the addition of the "Franklin Pedal". Anything custom is going to cost more and be more labor intensive. The bottom line is always money. Anything outside the mainstream is always a challenge and may not work correctly. I don't think any builder wants a dog of a steel out in the field with his name on it. It's bad business for them.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 17 May 2009 7:13 am

If a builder wants your business, he'll endeavor to give you what you want without question. More pedals and levers is more money for him.

If I got this question from a builder, it would make me uncomfortable and I'd be concerned about the finished product performing as I wanted. I'd look elsewhere.

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 17 May 2009 7:57 am

Tim, I personally think it's great that you are thinking outside the box, so to speak. I say go for it. I'm sure that you can find a builder that will build you a guitar just the way you want it.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 May 2009 8:06 am

Sometimes these things are limited by the design of the mechanicals. They might require a great deal of extra off-line production work. And a much higher cost. Still, I'd be put off by a builder asking that question!

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 17 May 2009 11:04 am

Some years back i bought a used D10 Carter from John and Bud.They took off several knee levers for me.
I suppose thats what the previous owner wanted but it was so cluttered up underneath with knee levers it was hard to play.
What a knee lever will do can be done with another in a different fret and position.IMO,learn the neck.In other words put 20 knee levers under it and try to do what Chalker and others did with only floor pedals on a fender steel years ago.
I am being a lttle factious here,but true,IMO.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 17 May 2009 1:52 pm

Tim, not to pick on the builders, but I kind of agree with you. If the builder doesn't have a limit on additional pedals and knees, they should just stick as many on that they can get on a guitar. I know it's hard to fit and adjust all that stuff, but some builders have extra knee levers costing more than the first say, 5 knees, to make up for the extra work needed.
Maybe they should have a limit or just make the price prohibitive of anything past what they want to put on. Again, not to pick on the builder, but it is strange to ask a customer why he wants something like extra pedals and knees. Unless they think we may not like the final product, which might be the issue. Extra knee levers sometimes need to adjusted to fit each player.
Just some thoughts on it.

Shorty Smith · Post by **Shorty Smith** » 17 May 2009 3:17 pm

If it take 9 pedals for you to play, you need to go back to the learning stage, Shorty

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 May 2009 4:00 pm

Tim, not to pick on the builders, but I kind of agree with you. If the builder doesn't have a limit on additional pedals and knees, they should just stick as many on that they can get on a guitar.

To us, it's just a guitar. But to the builder, it's his living and reputation. He has to stand behind and service the guitar, and it may wind up to be a lot of hassle down the road. The profit on that one guitar, regardless of how fancy or complicated it may be, will be gone very quickly. I don't really understand what I'm reading, it's almost like indignation that the builder won't let you tell him how to run his business. And after all, it is his business! He has the right to refuse to do anything that he doesn't see a good reason for. And you have the right to take your business elsewhere.

Sounds like a pretty fair arrangement to me!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 17 May 2009 4:09 pm

It seems like a reasonable question to me. If you can't answer with simple, direct concrete reasons for having a 9 lever steel then you probably do not need them. The builder could be trying to save you some money and save himself some hassle.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 17 May 2009 4:09 pm

I would like to know exactly how the question was asked (by the builder). Did this come from several builders? Any chance that it was just out of curiosity the question was asked? There really isn't much information to go on here.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 17 May 2009 5:41 pm

Yes. Some good points have been made.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 17 May 2009 6:19 pm

Don't matter whether you need them or not. If you think you need them or just want them for whatever reason, they should be willing to accomodate your request.

I think all current builders can install up to 10 knees and 10 levers. Most of the bodies are already worked to fit 10 & 10. Shouldn't be a major problem for any competent builder.

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 17 May 2009 6:30 pm

You guys remember Jimmy Crawford and his Crawford Cluster?

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 17 May 2009 6:40 pm

Sorry, I posted twice.

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 17 May 2009 6:54 pm

Check the back of Winnie's book and see what Curly had.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 17 May 2009 8:56 pm

I've been reading this thread for a bit and chewed on it and fell compelled to put my 2 cents in. I remember buying my 1st really nice guitar- it was an MSA Tobacco Brown lacquer 12 string universal setup guitar with all the fixin's. I had the appendix of Winnie's book analyzed down to the gnat's rear-end and that's where I learned most of my music theory just trying to figure out just why certain players were making certain changes and I spent at least 100 wonderful and frustrating hours lying on my stomach in the basement of my folks' home on my summer break of school trying to figure out just how I wanted to set my dream guitar up. It was 1974.
For anyone to criticize Tim for wanting more changes than they have is just pure BS. He is not a hack but an accomplished player and someone to be reckoned with. If he wants x pedals and y knee levers- so what- it's what he wants. He was asking why some builders wouldn't do it. I know why- it's a pain to make them work well and they might not make out financially as it takes an inordinate amount of time to accomplish building a playable guitar with what some consider an excessive amount of pedals and levers. Again-so what? It's Tim's dream- he doesn't have to explain his reasons for wanting anything to anyone- let him have his dream- and the rest of us can have our own dreams.

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Thinking about buying a new guitar

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