The new 'Tinny' sound

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 14 May 2009 9:40 am

Well, not so new.

The band and I did some demo recording last night and I was completely disappointed in my sound. Tinny is the only way to describe it. I hate tinny and I nicknamed it 'High-String Tinny'!

I adjusted the top end down considerably and the mixer rolled the top off even futher to no avail.

I next tried the tone adjustment on my Goodrich pedal. Nope.

I tried grabbing the strings harder thinking I wasn't picking forcefully enough. Broke string #3--didn't work either.

I was miked so I'm thinking now--in retrospect--that maybe the mike was a cheap one (I was told it was a 'decent' mike). I love the sound coming out of the Sessions 400 BW but I can't translate that to the CD burner. I don't know what the mike was but I'll check.

I'm sure someone else has had this complaint.

Any ideas? I'd appreciate any help.
.

Leroy Golden · Post by **Leroy Golden** » 14 May 2009 12:21 pm

If you think the mic is the problem spot try eliminating it and go direct out of the session 400, if it has a pre-amp out that is- to the mixer then to the recorder. just a thought.

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 14 May 2009 3:41 pm

Mr. Golden, we tried that but it seems that power supply is going bad so we had serious noise in the loop. Even though the P.S. wouldn't cause the tinny sound, we had to stop recording attempt until replacement.

We will go direct shortly and see what happens.

Thx.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 15 May 2009 10:25 am

Welcome to the world of digital recording.

You need to heat your sound up with a good tube mic preamp. If you just stick a questionable mic in front of your amp and go right in the console you most likely will get the tinny sound.

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 15 May 2009 10:28 am

If the sound coming out of the amp is great and the sound on the record is not, you've got a beef with your engineer. There's no way for you to tell exactly what part of the chain is causing the problem, but the engineer needs to fix it!

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 15 May 2009 1:03 pm

Welcome to the world of digital recording.

I'm learning!

Ben Strano · Post by **Ben Strano** » 15 May 2009 3:09 pm

Ya... doesn't sound like there is anything you could do to fix it... the beef is with the engineer.

Try replacing that before you replace anything else.

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 15 May 2009 3:19 pm

Digital vs. analog accounts for about 0.1% of the sound. Choosing the right mic and putting it in the right place is FAR more important than which medium one records to. How else do you explain all the tinny-sounding records that came out in the 80s - they were all recorded to analog tape!

Ben Strano · Post by **Ben Strano** » 15 May 2009 3:23 pm

My buddies cite "blow" as the reason they made all of those tinny sounding records.

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 15 May 2009 4:42 pm

Digital vs. analog accounts for about 0.1% of the sound

If I get my sound within 0.1% of what I think is right, I'll be in great shape.

.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 15 May 2009 8:07 pm

Plenty of reverb will often fix that.

Kevin Rose · Post by **Kevin Rose** » 18 May 2009 12:01 pm

Bryan Daste wrote:Digital vs. analog accounts for about 0.1% of the sound. Choosing the right mic and putting it in the right place is FAR more important than which medium one records to. How else do you explain all the tinny-sounding records that came out in the 80s - they were all recorded to analog tape!

Not all of 'em DASH machines were around... but a good engineer can capture fat guitars to digital without problem.

Jonathan Cullifer · Post by **Jonathan Cullifer** » 20 May 2009 7:27 am

Last time I was in the studio, the engineers were going nuts because they couldn't figure out why a particular drum was so tinny. They tried different patch points and different mics. The problem went away when they changed the cable.

Where did they mike the speaker?

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 20 May 2009 3:51 pm

Where did they mike the speaker?

Directly in front of the BW.

Jonathan Cullifer · Post by **Jonathan Cullifer** » 20 May 2009 4:44 pm

I don't know because I wasn't there, but if they move the mic off the dustcap and more toward the cone, then that might help the sound out some. The BW's metal dust cap adds quite a bit of high end.

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 20 May 2009 6:14 pm

OK, we are going to try again Thursday. I'll bring this to the attention of the engineer.

Actually, he should have the bad power supply replaced so he should be able to come directly of the amp output.

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 20 May 2009 11:32 pm

If the engineer has a ribbon mic, try it. That may take the "harsh" out.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 21 May 2009 12:07 am

try a different studio...

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 21 May 2009 8:17 pm

Everything is OK. The bad power supply was replaced and we could come directly off the amp. The recording sounded good (all except my playing

).

It has a good, full sound now. In fact, it seems to be enhancing the Sessions 400 output. I think this 400 is a great amp--just damn heavy. But I'd take the sound over the 112 I have anytime.

Thanks for all the input. I'm happy now.

Walter Bowden · Post by **Walter Bowden** » 11 Jun 2009 9:43 am

Mic placement has become a "lost art". If you read interviews by seasoned multiple platinum enginees and producers they usually have a story or two about unconventional and counter intuitive mic placements that bring out the particular sounds they were looking for especially on drums. But is's the same thing for horns, piano, acoustic guitars, fiddles, singers, etc. Usually an assistant is in the room with the instrument and via headphones will move the mic(s)while the engineer/producer listens in the control room and communicates on the talkback mic.
I remember some studios with their own drum kits already miced up and in the drum booth and they wouldn't allow the drummer to make any changes to the set. He might get lucky and be allowed to use his snare and a cymbal or two. A good drummer back then would adjust his playing style to closer match the producer's wishes. Sometimes moving the mic "off axis" slightly or up or back a few inches can make a world of difference. Trying to fix a badly miced track with EQ or effects oftentimes makes a bad sound even worse. Conversley, a good mic placement will result in a good sound to start with and "ear candy" added later will enhance it. A great book for anyone interested in the subject written by one of the legends in microphone design and application is by Lou Burroughs of EV if it is still in print. Many engineers consider it the gold standard for mic tutiorials and it is very easy to understand.