The Steel Guitar Forum

We have been useing nylon tuners for ages now, why? Almost every builder has a quest to make their guitar the most advanced, I think the last few years we seen some big strides, cant we use a metal tuner instead? I understand nylon tuners need to be stiff I would imagine you can acomplish this with a metal or steel tuner, if designed right.

Chrome tuners!

A.J.

i think the problem with a metal tuner would be wear , nylon against metal acts like a lubricant

I think metal tuners would vibrate and loosen easily,Nylon seems to grip.
Billy

Very old Sho-Buds used metal tuners. So does my Klein. The Klein tuners turn very stiff and they stay right where you put them.

Like these? Constant twiddlin'! I don't really know if the springs make the situation better or worse!

Some of the aircraft stainless nuts are lined with teflon.These things would probably work better than most of the nylon ones we use now.One thing for sure you would'nt wear out the outside.Some people call them acorn nuts.

The nylon tuning nuts are inexpensive, lightweight, and work very well. I only had to replace one on my old guitar in over 29 years of playing. Metal against metal would wear out faster, and a stainless nut with a nylon insert would accomplish nothing.

I say "If it works well, leave it alone".

I have build several steel guitars and I even used SS tuners and like Donny said.It does not do anything.
A nylon insert can be done but then again.....why would you use a nylon inserted Stainless steel tuner when we have nylon tuners on the market?

Guitar builders try to innovate their models and make them lighter and yet more stable.
They are trying to cut down on the weight where ever they can.I don't think they want to add to it.

Ron

P.S
Installing a Stainless Steel tuner without a nylon insert is asking for problems.There is just not enough room on the changer for them.
Stainless nuts on Stainless rods have the tendency to cut the thread of the rod.

Unless a spacer/washer made of a much harder alloy than the changer fingers is used to activate pulls, they will literally "chew out" the changer assemblies...hence the nylon tuning nuts we now use.
BMI used to use a hardened "bullet bushing" ahead of the tuners in years past...don't know for sure if they still do. They worked very well because of their hardness in relation to the material used on the changer levers. Mullen, for example, uses aluminum sleeves against an aluminum changer lever...a formula IMO for constant wear and galling.
Rockwell C scale values must be used here to ensure enough dissimilarity as to avoid "grating" and "galling" between the components. Nylon exhibits self-lubricity and therefore diminishes friction to a very tolerable level. The 408-type nylon used on George L's nuts is about 16% tougher than the run-of-the-mill 101-type nylons used by some today. 6/6 nylon is a viable alternative, but metal nuts will never perform as well as the nylon tuners of this age IMO.
PRR

Thanks paul.

Robert H.
1963(?) Shobud Fingertip.

Calvin Walley wrote:A.J.

i think the problem with a metal tuner would be wear , nylon against metal acts like a lubricant

On the sort of changer system like a shobud rack&barrel or barrel tuners behind two-hole pullers, where the whole pullrod turns, you would need to simply use nylon washers or washers made of soft alloy. These guitars came new with a metal washer, of which alloy I'm not certain, but they were the softest of the 3 parts to wear out--the pullrod nut/allen head andwasher/ and finger. Today, when we refurbish these old guitars, we replace use nylon washers.

Your more modern all-pull guitars with a fixed pull rod, Nylon tuners do the job just about perfect. i don't think they look bad, do you? Form to function.

Hope this isn't construed as hijacking this thread. Has anyone designed a changer where the nylon tuners are in a vertical position ala some "keyless" tuning systems? Sure would make life a lot easier.

I thought that they were nylon so that they would strip out if something jammed in the changer rather than to screw up bell cranks and break or bend the fingers. This is only my guess.

Paul Redmond wrote:Mullen, for example, uses aluminum sleeves against an aluminum changer lever...a formula IMO for constant wear and galling.

If Mullen's aluminum sleeves are a bad idea, where might one obtain comparable nylon sleeves? Or other material?

Brint, A quich search under "nylon spacers" will yeild many suppliers for such items, though they may need to be drilled out. (Actually, I've never heard of such problems with the Mullen changer, so I wouldn't be too fast to try and fix something that may not be broken.) Provided pressures aren't high and clearances aren't tight, there's little concern for galling, especially if some sort of lubricant is used opccasionally.

Brint - ENCO Inc. sells lengths of nylon and Delrin rod. You would have to have access to a small lathe to make these. Years ago, I had some sleeves injection-molded of black Delrin in a quickie little junk mold I cobbled together just to get a few hundred pieces. I think I may still have the cavity inserts, but I believe the mold base went to the hereafter back in the late 1980's. If the demand was there, I would be willing to build a new mold with interchangeable sleeves to allow for several lengths and rod diameters.
PRR