How can I get RKL raise and lower on a pull release changer?

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

One of my guitars has a pull/release changer. Right now RKL raises 1 to a G# and raises 7 to a G. I want to move the string 7 pull and instead have it lower 6 to an F# instead.

Any ideas on what would be the best way to reverse the motion of only string 6 so its rightward moving?
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richard burton · From: Britain

The first thing that you need to know is:
Does the pull-release changer allow a string to both raise and lower?
Some do, but a lot don't, and a bit of handiwork is required to make a string raise and lower.

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

Yes - The changer can raise and lower the same string(s).

My E's raise and lower on the same knee. Is that what you are referring to?

The tricky part for this change is to raise one string while lowering another on the same knee lever.
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Steve Waltz · From: USA

Some Pull release guitars have the cross shaft far enough from the underside of the guitar that you can turn the puller upside down and turn a pull into a release. Some guitars don't have room for that.

One of mine has room the other doesn't. On the one with room I have a raise and a lower on one lever. So it's possible. The first string is tuned at the keyhead with the knee engaged and the knee lever stop set. When released the open string is tuned at the changer screws that bang into the finger. The 6th string lower would be held in place by a spring and tuned open at the keyhead and the lower tuned at the changer when engaged.

If you don't have room to do it that way you need to add a second axle where a pull is turned into a release.

different issue: make sure your E raise and lower are on the same leg. It helps reduce slack by having the left knee lever dip towards you while you engage LKR as the E lower.

I hope that helps,
steve

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

Steve - that gives me a good idea - If I don't have room currently, I'll modify it so I do. All it should require are new taller L mounts for that lever.

I like that! No linkage involved.

On your other issue about slack. I do have E's on my left leg.

How much slack do you suppose my B pedal will have have after adding a whole step lower? Hopefully I can minimize it by trying out different locations at the changer and bellcrank.
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Steve Waltz · From: USA

I thought you said you had your E raise on one knee and the E lower on another knee. I had E raise at LRL and E Lower on RKL and it didnt' work well. If you reduce slack the left knee lever will hit your knee when the E lower is engaged. I think even the new 63 reissue Jacksons place the set up as I now do with the raise and lower of the e's both on the left knee.

Having as many places as possible to adjust travel is important. With pedals make sure that you have at least two choices where the pedal rods attaches to the cross shaft. Try to have two or more choices on the pullers and then have mutiple choices in the finger. Each of those will make a difference. If you need more travle you need longer of each or one of those. It will be interesting to see how the B pedal works with that lower.

Also be carefull about lining up rods with fingers. If the rods go in at a slope you can have binding in the finger just enough to make returns stick and then you have to bump a lever to get it to return.

What is the guitar?

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

I edited my mistake - they are on the same left knee.
It'll take some experimenting for sure to get it right.

Thanks
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Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Greg,
Is this the style changer finger on you PSG ?If so, I have a suggestion..Bill (please pardon my lack of drawing talent)

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Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

I've heard of people with two left feet...Hey Greg, Lee started it !!!!!
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Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

2 left knees might be just what I need to finally get all those hot licks! Alien

Bill - that looks to be similar to what I have - a single finger design where the lowers hold the finger with spring tension and the raises pull it in the opposite direction.
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Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Greg,
Bellcrank (4) pulls changer to raise, bellcrank (3) pulls the pivot releasing spring tention (1) to lower (2).Thats the way the first Sho-Buds, and most of the custom builders did it in that era.

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Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

Thanks Bill - that's a good alternative plan if I don't have enough room to raise up the mounts on the lever and run the bellcrank on the top side.

After thinking about it I'm wondering if raising the knee lever off the body more is going to make it too stiff as I'll be activating it closer to the fulcrum at that point. Question

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Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Greg,
This will maybe give you a better idea of what I was trying to explain in my last drawing....Bill

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Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

Worst-case scenario on that 6th string drop to F# will be the slight "bump" you'll feel on your second pedal when you push it. You may be able to switch ratios around a bit on the 3rd string pull to help re-balance the pull. You may want to add a weak return spring to the 2nd pedal cross-shaft just to ensure that the pedal is at the top of its travel when you lower #6 if that should become necessary. That lower on #6 usually doesn't cause much of a problem in that department unless the pedal is real heavy or it's binding a bit. The lower won't go down if a raise is in the way.
A well-set-up pull/release system is about as good as it gets IMO. They are direct mechanically and raises don't require any springs for string return...just the string tension. Even that can be eased up a bit with the addition of very weak helper springs on raise-only changer fingers.
PRR

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

Thanks Paul - I figured that I might need to mess around with the finger positioning for the B pedal raise - probably want it quicker to make up for the extra "slack" caused by the travel needed for a lower on that string. I'll also have to time the 3rd string raise along with it.

Bill - thanks for the photo, I hadn't pictured it down at the endplate area but that makes sense from an "out of the way" perspective.
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Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

Greg - You hit the nail on the head...it's just a matter of a bit of "re-timing"...nothing major. You'll also discover down the line that once the pulls are set, you probably won't ever have to "tweak" them save for an out-of-gage string. The old pull/release systems are about as repetitive as the Lord allows. I have that drop on my little Maverick and haven't touched a thing since I put it on there in the early 1980's. Any extra holes you may have in either the bellcranks or the changer fingers will just sweeten the whole deal when re-balancing the pulls.
PRR

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

I agree Paul - its a very stable system. Just today we played the Lilac festival in Rochester NY and it was about 60 degrees as a high. Brrr... anyway - I quickly tuned the guitar to an open E reference and didn't have to touch the changer tuners at all -it just worked!
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