The Steel Guitar Forum

I've noticed lately that some students of the steel guitar (and guitar) think that moving the bar (or the hand) to the LEFT, toward the Nut is moving UP the neck. I've heard that from students a lot lately, and it really puzzles me. I think most of us here consider moving UP the neck to be moving to the Right, toward the bridge... the "higher" frets, higher in Pitch.
I can understand how a beginning guitar student might think this way, since the guitar neck does point "up" somewhat, but when a lap steel student moves his bar from fret 5 to fret 17 and says he's moving DOWN the neck... it blows my mind, and I immediately correct the student. Sometimes they are still reluctant however and continue moving UP to fret 3 and DOWN to fret 17.

The same applies to tuning topics wherein it's oft'
mentioned the TOP STRING being #6 string or as many of us learned in the beginning, it's actually the BOTTOM STRING.

NOTHING to argue about but being correct/or proper used to be a decided advatange in the art of communication.

Ray, I agree with you about the Top string and the Bottom string.

How about this one... The FRONT neck of a Stringmaster. Some players call the neck Closest to them as they play the Front neck.

Doug Beaumier wrote:I've noticed lately that some students of the steel guitar (and guitar) think that moving the bar (or the hand) to the LEFT, toward the Nut is moving UP the neck. I've heard that from students a lot lately, and it really puzzles me. I think most of us here consider moving UP the neck to be moving to the Right, toward the bridge... the "higher" frets, higher in Pitch.
I can understand how a beginning guitar student might think this way, since the guitar neck does point "up" somewhat, but when a lap steel student moves his bar from fret 5 to fret 17 and says he's moving DOWN the neck... it blows my mind, and I immediately correct the student. Sometimes they are still reluctant however and continue moving UP to fret 3 and DOWN to fret 17.

For Lap-Steel players this can be cured by amputating the student's left foot.

Don't have any lap steel students, but I've noticed the same thing with my guitar students,- when I say "up the neck" they move their hand towards the headstock.
I can understand their logic, seeing the headstock as the highest point of the guitar, but I always explain that they need to think in terms of pitch - "up" means higher notes.
Same thing with strings.....

agreed. Up means higher pitch. Low string is the big fat one.
I had my first guitar lesson way back in 1965. that's how I was taught the first day.

I like to semi-embarress them with the line,"The bigger the string the bigger the number." Kindergarten for sure, but it sticks.

Up is down, and down is up. What's so confusing about that

Oh no, now I can't lift the bar "UP" off the strings let alone put it back "DOWN" . I will still raise and lower it, but not the pitch. I think moving "BACK AND FORTH" on the neck will really clear things up. regards rob

Robert Szpuk wrote:Oh no, now I can't lift the bar "UP" off the strings let alone put it back "DOWN" . I will still raise and lower it, but not the pitch. I think moving "BACK AND FORTH" on the neck will really clear things up. regards rob

I agree, this movement is also "up and down", but in the vertical plane.
I think "back and forth" would add confusion... what if you're looking from the other end?
In the horizontal plane we have not only the "up & down" the neck which raises or lowers the pitch respectively, but also the other "up & down" or perhaps "in & out" motion whereby the bar is moved along it's length - inwards towards the lower strings leaving higher strings open for example.
Front & back motion may be confusing if the motion is described from the point-of-view of the guitaree as opposed to the guitarer, or indeed an onlooker standing to one side or the other, neccesitating the utilisation of terms such as "hither" and "yonder", along with "back & forth", "up & down", "in & out", "to & fro" etc.

I like playing hammer-offs and pull-ons up the neck on the open strings!

Doug Beaumier wrote:I like playing hammer-offs and pull-ons up the neck on the open strings!

Along with nail-ups & push-overs, right?

It took me a while to get used to this terminology, too. Those of us who are less musically-educated relate to the guitar physically, I think, at first. It makes sense, from an anatomical perspective, that moving along a neck toward a head(stock) is "up" and moving toward the body is "down". It's incorrect to look at it that way re: a musical instrument, but it makes sense. The head of an object is typically at the top, and the top is 'up'-ward from the rest of the object. [Of course the "top" of a guitar or steel is the part opposite the "back," not the "bottom". . .but that's a whole 'nother discussion!]

My point is it's counter-intuitive for some of us, because we're relating to the instrument instead of the sound. But we can catch on!

Vince

I can understand that, Vince. Beginners often look at the physical aspect... UP the neck being toward the headstock. Almost every "day-1" guitar student does that. When I tell a new guitar student to move his hand UP the neck he moves to fret 1... it happens all the time. They think the TOP of the neck is fret 1, and the BOTTOM of the neck is fret 22! I tell them.. it's the pitch, the sound... up is up, down is down.

Doug,

The whole "front" neck and "back" neck thing is confusing to me, too! I don't think that terminology makes much since. I prefer "inside" and "outside" for describing the necks of a steel!

The same goes for standard guitar. I"m not a fan of the terms "front" pickup and "back" pickup. Front of what? Back of what? Both pickups are on the front of the guitar! It's either the "bridge" pickup or the "neck" pickup!

Chris

Somehow "way down there in Hugheyland" doesn't sound right. You're the teacher, Doug. It's up to you to correct your students when they're wrong.

You're the teacher, Doug. It's up to you to correct your students when they're wrong.

Yes, and I do!

Somehow "way down there in Hugheyland" doesn't sound right.

You're right b0b, and "way up on fret 1" sounds all wrong too!

The same goes for standard guitar. I"m not a fan of the terms "front" pickup and "back" pickup. Front of what? Back of what? Both pickups are on the front of the guitar! It's either the "bridge" pickup or the "neck" pickup!

...or bass pickup and treble pickup... Dnt Undrstnd!

it occurred to me that if we think in terms of musical scale [instrument], then Up and Down fits in with our innate logic.
I can understand the human body comparison. instruments do have fronts, backs, rears, tops, bottoms, sides, and bellies. some even have legs.
I could image a foot as well. arms....can't think of any. I think of my guitar as a lady. but, it strikes me new the up/down assumption.
hilarious is the slide bar. in/out...up/down.
this is a family friendly site.

I think of my guitar as a lady.

Me too. I really like her lower bout!

Steinar is right.
I just tell them: "We're talking about pitch, not direction!"

I have been overwhelmed by the idea of amputating some poor slob's foot for misinterpreting Doug's directional advice. I have been laughing uncontrolably for many minutes. Help...Dnt Undrstnd Can anyone explain?

Help...Dnt Undrstnd Can anyone explain?

I Dnt Undrstnd either

Here's another example of physical location over pitch... beginning students on regular guitar often think the LOWER strings are Strings 1 & 2 because they are closer to the floor, and the HIGH strings are the thick ones because they are the Highest on the guitar.

I taught lessons for years and always related neck direction to pitch.