Getting pedal steel to sound like a Hammond B-3

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 16 Apr 2009 1:08 pm

I played a jazz gig on my steel recently and somebody came up to me on the break and remarked that he had never seen or heard a pedal steel used for jazz and that the sound I got reminded him a little of an organ ( I use a lot of 4 note voicings). It got me to thinking about how cool it would be to make my steel sound like a B-3 organ, and which device would come close to doing just that. I did a search in Electronics and found several interesting topics on the subject. I came up with the following names-

1. H+K Roto Sphere (Rotovibe?)
2. Boss RT20
3. Korg G4
4. Electro Harmonix POG

I would greatly appreciate any feedback on this subject from those of you who have used any of these or who might be able to suggest any other devices that emulate the sound of jazz organ. I remember a zillion years ago when Rusty Young played through a Leslie and got the organ sound. I want to know what is currently available on the market for getting the organ sound on my steel. Thanks.

Steve Hamill · Post by **Steve Hamill** » 16 Apr 2009 1:58 pm

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=532765

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 16 Apr 2009 2:01 pm

Mike, this thread also had a lot of good ideas/info:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=143540

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 16 Apr 2009 2:12 pm

Thanks fellas. The Electro Harmonix HOG might be the way to go. Ultimately I'll have to try one to see if it has the sound I'm looking for. Another option might be to use a midi pickup with a Roland unit but I don't like the idea of having to change my pickup so I'll see what the EH HOG sounds like. Anyone have samples of the H+K Roto Sphere? I'm curious how that sounds also. From what I've read, it appears that the EH HOG comes closest to the Hammond B-3. Any other opinions or suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 16 Apr 2009 3:40 pm

Here's something I recorded a few years ago, using a Peavey Max100 processor for the organ effect on C6th pedal steel. I don't know if it's still in production.

Low Life

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 16 Apr 2009 3:53 pm

Sounds good Jerry.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 16 Apr 2009 4:03 pm

Mike,
I use the EH Pog and it works for me. You are welcome to drop by and check it out.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 16 Apr 2009 4:38 pm

Other than large pipe organs in cathedrals, I think organs spoil most music. I can't imagine why anyone would want to take the beautiful sound of the steel guitar and make it sound like one of those awful Hammond organs.

(Just a personal observation. Chaqu'un à son goût.)

Doug Palmer · Post by **Doug Palmer** » 16 Apr 2009 4:56 pm

Alan, get a life. The Hammond sound is part of Americana. I had a Leslie for years but got tired of haulin' it around. I use the RT-20 now and really like it. Up close it doesn't have the 3-D sound but in recordings and from a distance it sounds real close. For the price it's well worth it. After all, isn't it about making the band sound better?

DP

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 16 Apr 2009 6:59 pm

Hey Bob H, thanks for the offer. I will give you a call soon. I will be in upstate NY until next week, but when I get back I will call you, and then I can come over to your place. I need to talk to you about the Tonealigner pickups also.

Mike Poholsky · Post by **Mike Poholsky** » 16 Apr 2009 7:51 pm

Mike, if you haven't done so already, get this record. EPIC BN 26522, '70-'71? Rusty Young does some incredible "Steel as B3" playing on this Poco record. Not to mention the rest of the playing AND singing is fantastic!!!
I thought I read somewhere, that Rusty actually played through a Leslie. Must of had roadies!

Ron Wright · Post by **Ron Wright** » 16 Apr 2009 8:16 pm

I use a BEHRINGER RM600 rotary effects pedal ..works great.but you have to think like your playing an organ ..attacks and swells type stuff

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 16 Apr 2009 9:01 pm

I played a few gigs in the same role. Used a Rotosphere. But all that gives you is the Leslie effect. Watch your sustain...

-eric

John Groover McDuffie · Post by **John Groover McDuffie** » 16 Apr 2009 9:17 pm

IMHO the Boss ME50 has a good rotary speaker if get the 3 parameters in the sweet spot. I use it a lot for guitar. i also like layering a rotary effect with a Fender-type vibrato.

A potentially overlooked factor is that playing organ-type licks will go along way toward making the effect sound believable. If you know what I mean.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 17 Apr 2009 3:22 am

Around here, we refer to the Hammond as the "steel eliminator."

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 17 Apr 2009 3:46 am

I've had some success using a Boss VF-1. It doesn't have a dedicated "rotary" setting, but what I do is synch the tremolo setting to a quarter note and the chorus setting to a dotted quarter note, then use the "Master" window to control the tempo - they're swirling a different speeds. I normally like subtle effects, but in this case I krank 'em both up to "50" or so.

As was said in Danny Gatton's rhythm guitar video (and as you clearly figured out), the tone that you feed into the box and the type of chords you play have a big effect. Jimmy Smith and Jack McDuff played a lot of simple 1-3-5(-b7) "stab" chords - for some strange reason, they thought they couldn't get rich playing sophisticated bebop?

Strats are so limiting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqSLoxwkCYE

I hear nothing above about 2k on that organ.

Ron Kassof · Post by **Ron Kassof** » 17 Apr 2009 5:00 am

You're going to get a lot of responses along the lines of "the only thing that sounds like a Hammond thru a Leslie is a Hammond thru a Leslie." That said, from what I've read the "best" (from an organ-playing point of view) Leslie simulations are obtained when playing in stereo because the speaker separation emphasizes the amplitude and frequency modulations. So I think a stereo rig might be more important than the actual simulator box. I know the HK Rotosphere has stereo outputs - don't know about which others do.

Also, as mentioned, playing style is important. Simple "shell" chords for jazz, more complex stuff for gospel. Maybe a little overdrive. Listen how the greats (more the gospel/blues/rock guys than jazzers) worked the speed switch as though it was its own instrument.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 17 Apr 2009 7:46 am

Personally, I think the best Leslie sim is the Dynachord CLS-222.
Good luck finding one, though...

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 17 Apr 2009 7:59 am

I have the Korg Toneworks G4 and it does respectable job, not exactly like a Leslie, but respectable. The production of these stopped in the '90s, though.

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 17 Apr 2009 8:03 am

I use a Boss RT-20 and the POG together.

B3s are generating multiple octaves via the tonewheels and the octaving of the POG gets you in the ballpark, the HOG would be even better I would guess.

The RT-20 does a pretty realistic Leslie, especially stereo, but works fine in mono through a guitar amp also.

Having both things going on sounds much more realistic to me, and I usually add a bit of overdrive also

Here is a video where you can hear an example

http://blip.tv/play/hRnIolaG+Bc

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 17 Apr 2009 8:41 am

David I believe that the Boss VF-1 has a rotory sound.

Larry Behm

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 17 Apr 2009 9:32 am

Hi Mike, I use a Boss RT-20. I used to have a Korg toneworks G-4, but sold it on ebay. The only trouble I found with the Korg was that in bypass it "slightly" affected the sound of the steel. It's nice to have a small arsernal of effects for a steel in a small 4 or 5 piece line up, obviously "NOT" to overplay, but just use them when needed. With the Boss RT-20 I will just pad out on low chords behind the lead player on certain solos...just to fill the sound out behind him. It also depends on the song to use it. I only ever switch it on, on some rocky stuff.

Micky Byrne United Kingdom

www.micky-byrne.co.uk

Bob Knetzger · Post by **Bob Knetzger** » 17 Apr 2009 9:51 am

Rusty Young totally nailed the faux-organ-on-steel thing.

Real Leslie, or short of that, a Fender Vibrotone or Cordovox or Rotosphere, that's for sure.

...but the secret sauce that Rusty used was a WAH WAH PEDAL...not as usually played with full pedal excursion back forth to sweep continuously thru the notch filter/boost thing, but instead used variously at different fixed pedal settings to imitate the organ's draw bar tonal colors.

Rusty also perfected a cool wah pedal maneuver: a tonal "punch." Play a two note "chord" as a series of stabs with the pedal all the way back, then do the last sustained stab with the pedal full on: boop-boop-boop-BAAAAAAAAHP!! ....really works great with the Leslie doppler swirl.

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 17 Apr 2009 11:07 am

Years ago one of my guitar students brought over his Roland guitar synthesizer (or whatever the heck it was

). It had 6 plastic strings which were all the same gauge and it could get a few different organ sounds including a church organ sound. It was weird to play because of the strings but it sounded exactly like an organ.
I think Rusty really did the best job of emulating an organ although I haven't heard too many others attempt to do it. I appreciate all the positive responses that I've received here on this thread regarding equipment and ideas. Thanks to you all for your input on this subject.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 17 Apr 2009 11:26 am

The closest I've found is using the POG through my Motion Sound guitar leslie. Very convincing!

I wasn't using it much because I'm too in love with the sound of the steel these days, so I gave my POG to my wife, who is doing much more interesting things with it than I ever did.

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Getting pedal steel to sound like a Hammond B-3

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