My Method - Tuning Out Cabinet Drop E9(for all-pull steels)

[richard burton]

For the benefit of newbies, or anyone struggling with their tuning, I'm starting a new topic re-iterating my previously posted tuning method, which was favourably received at the time

Tune most of the strings approximately up to pitch, in order to get the guitar under tension.

Press A + B pedals, and tune all the strings that are not raised (1 2 4 7 8 9) up to pitch, with the machine heads.

Release the pedals, and take particular note of the pitch of the 4th string. It will probably be sharp.
Don't alter it.

Tune the 3rd, 5th, 6th and 10th string by ear (with the machine heads) until they sound in tune with the 4th (and 8th string)

Press pedals A + B, and tune strings 3 5 6 10 up to pitch (with the nylon tuners on the endplate)
Check the 4th and 8th strings to make sure that they are still at the correct pitch

Release A + B pedals.

Press pedals B + C, and tune strings 4 + 5 up to pitch, with the nylon tuners.

Release pedals

[Donny Hinson]

My method is somewhat simpler.

Tune the 4th (open "E") with A&B pedals down. Then let off A&B and tune everything so it sounds in-tune with the 4th.

Done deal.

[Gary Preston]

I agree with Donny .

[Bill Ford]

What Donny said,also I use harmonics to tune out the beats...Bill

[Donny Hinson]

I agree with Donny .

Well...there went your reputation, Gary.

[John Bechtel]

Another tip! Don't depend on your tuner to tell you when you're “in tune”! Your ear must be the last-word! If you do this, so-called “Cabinet-Drop” won't be a problem for you!

[David Doggett]

This problem only really matters when playing strings open at the nut without the bar. Up the neck your bar and ears will compensate for slight cabinet drop, whether you tune with the pedals down or up.

If you have substantial cabinet drop (2 Hz [8 cents] or more), and you tune the Es straight up 440 with the pedals down, that can put them too sharp at the nut without the pedals. I have about 2 Hz (8 cents) cabinet drop, because I play a uni with three pulls on most pedals, and some of the pulls are on low heavy gauge strings that cause more drop. If I tune the Es straight up with the pedals down, they will go to 442 Hz (+8 cents) and sound too sharp when played open at the nut without pedals. My solution is to split the difference. I tune the Es without pedals to 441 (+ 4 cents). They sound fine open at the nut. With the pedals down, they go to 439 (-4 cents), and that also sounds fine.

If you have less cabinet drop, say 1 Hz (4 cents), which is typical of modern 10-string E9s, then the way Richard describes will work fine. Your Es will be 440 (0 cents) with pedals down, and 441 (+4 cents) without the pedals (the same as mine). It will sound fine open at the nut whether the pedals are up or down. It's better to be slightly sharp than slightly flat. Having the chords centered slightly sharp helps our low JI thirds to blend with keyboards and guitars tuning everything straight up.

[Lee Baucum]

I agree with David. I also play a U-12. I tune the "pedals up" to 441 on the tuner and the "pedals down" to 439. As far as thirds are concerned, I split the difference between JI and ET. I play in a band with two guitar players and a keyboard player and that seems to keep me out of trouble, tuning wise.

[Ron Cote]

(THANK YOU GUYS) I will try all you ideas. I have a Sho~Bud mid 80's Emmons E9 setup 4 ped 5 knee's.
My main problem for tuning it's ok open. But when i push down on the peddles it's just a little out of tune enough to make it sound off.

[Jim Palenscar]

When you tune by either of those methods and tune the E-F raise by ear you will generally find that it is about 20 cents flat. Knowing that, it will sound flat if you play it on the fret consequently when I tune that way and play the A and F combination, I usually roll the bar a bit sharp. If I'm playing with a piano, however, I'll pretty much tune most everything straight up.

[Larry Bressington]

I tune open.
Then pedals down and calibrate my pulls.

[Eric West]

Well I think tuners and charts give you a closeness that you can adjust with your bar or retuning. Sometimes things slip. Sometimes with a flat singer or sharp guitar you just have to grin and bear it. It's something that develops over a period of years though. Otherwise you're looking like your the one that's out of tune...

Being confident in your tuning method whatever it is lets you get into the playing, where we all really belong.

If you find yourself wiggling the bar a lot it might mean that your guitar isn't returning or pulling right. They do stick, and wear out.



EJL

[richard burton]

I posted this more than a year ago, and my ideas were primarily aimed at new players, who haven't yet fully understood the nuances of pedal steels.

The first thing they do is to tune the steel up open, then press a pedal and tune the raised strings up to pitch with the nylons, then release the pedal and press another pedal etc...

This basic way of tuning doesn't allow for cabinet drop (some steels have significant detuning, some don't), and the newbie is left wondering why the instrument doesn't sound in tune.

Once the steel is tuned up to take into account the cabinet drop, the readings should be programmed into a digital tuner, so that the tuning can be replicated in a noisy environment

[Bo Legg]

For the benefit of newbies, or anyone struggling with their tuning, I'm starting a new topic re-iterating my previously posted tuning method, which was favourably received at the time

Richard posting a topic about a new method of tuning has about as much chance as a chicken making it across a major highway.
Why did the chicken cross the road? So we would have something to run over.

[richard burton]

It's just my way of tuning an all-pull (I have a slightly different, but still highly effective method for tuning the drop out of my Emmons push-pull)

For the guys that have no interest in it there's no need to slag my method off, just tune your steels the way that you want to.

I have had quite a few happy customers who now tune my way

[Bob Snelgrove]

(I have a slightly different, but still highly effective method for tuning the drop out of my Emmons push-pull)

Fire away


bob

[D.C. Williams]

It's just my way of tuning an all-pull (I have a slightly different, but still highly effective method for tuning the drop out of my Emmons push-pull)

Richard - If you're willing, I'd love to hear about your P/P tuning process, please and thanks.

[richard burton]

Let me start with a disclaimer:

It's best that the 6th string is a .022 wound, not a .022 plain.

If your steel uses a .022 plain, it will still drop a bit whether you use my method or not.

My E9 copedent is fairly simple, just the basic raises and lowers, I don't raise (or lower)the 1st and 7th strings.

I do lower the 9th a half-tone.

Using both feet, press pedals ABC, and raise the 8th string by activating the F lever

Tune (at the keyhead) string 1 (F#) 2 (Eb) 3 (A) 4 (F#) 5 (C#) 6 (A) 7 (F#) 8 (F) 9 (D) 10 (C#)

Release all pedals and levers.

Press pedals A + B, and tune string 4 + 8 to E using the bottom row of screws at the changer endplate

Release the pedals, and listen closely to string 4. It may rise in pitch slightly.

Tune all the strings to their open pitch (except 4 + 8 ) by ear, using string 4 as the reference, using the bottom row of screws at the changer endplate.

Tune the lowers as normal

[D.C. Williams]

Thanks. If my Emmons P/P ever needs to be re-tuned, I'll definitely give this a shot.