The Steel Guitar Forum

In the past there have been several posts regarding the build quality and reliability (or lack of!) on Fender amps, especially the "Reissue Twin Custom 15". I noticed that Fender's answer to this problem was to raise their tube amp prices approximately 30% over this time last year.
Would anyone know if conditions have improved substantially at Fender quality wise or is this move just a further example of corporate greed and an attempt at running a once revered name into the ground?

To my ear a Steel King surpasses a RI Twin with 15" speaker.
I have a Vibrosonic, currently use and like a Fox mod Nashville 112,
Prefer a Session 400 for top tone, with out breaking the bank.

I'll speak up for tube amps. Best bang for the buck in my book is the '70's silverface twins, and take them to a reliable tech and service them. Still cheaper than the new stuff, which is only a copy of the old '70's silverface twins anyways.

Ken Metcalf wrote:To my ear a Steel King surpasses a RI Twin with 15" speaker.

That would make sense. The S-K was designed specifically for pedal steel, and it has far more power and a far more versatile EQ setup than the old (and rather limited) tone-stack in the RI Twin. However, a few out there may still prefer the more vintage "tubey" sound of the RI Twin.

David , I sprung for a new re-issue 65 Super in 2004. I didn,t really NEED it but had always wanted one & was talked out of buying an original. For the 1st year it had tone to spare for guitar or steel at moderate volume. It ate a tube after a year of light duty ,& my dealer sold me 1 new 6L6 ,which brought back MOST of the tone ,however it became a fuse blower ,& lacked reliability, I bought a set of tubes & installed them , it now sounds like I am using a treble booster ,or cheap fuzz tone . I am sorry I didn't get in touch with Fender when the 1st tube went ,However I am Very Ill ,& let it go. The original dealer I bought it from sold out the year I bought it , & I have been dealing with the folks who bought him out ,who are great , but not an amp service center . I am sure I am out of Warranty ,but I am going to see what Fender thinks I should do. I get excellent service from my Session 400 Limited . I am sure I need some biasing ,& appear to have a bad resistor , I can read a meter! I did read in the manual that biasing was unnecessary with the new Groove Tubes, that come in this amp & am left to wonder why I was sold J&J & Ruby tubes. Fender does offer a free download of the schematic ,but it doesn't do much good , I need to know what the value of a resistor is & whether I should replace it .I will sell this thing for peanuts !

I have a Twin reverb RI, a Deluxe RI and a Hot Rod
Deluxe. The Twin and Deluxe RI are OK, just more finicky about finding the sweet spot, also reliability is an issue. The Hot Rod Deluxe seems
to more resemble the old Fenders in that it sounds pretty good most anyway you set it. Mine has eaten
a couple of plate resistors. The repair was not that expensive. If you play a lot in different size venues, then I believe it is important to have amps
in the 20, 40/60 and 100 watt range to be able to drive the amps in the range that they like. Naturally, I would prefer the older ones, kept up by
a competent tech person. I have an old Princeton
Reverb that is everything I expect it to be, with never a problem.

I forgot and should add.. I used to own a RI twin along with several other twins through the years.
Never had a reliability issue but it have a mid-range that I did not like.

The Fender Custom Twin 15 is NOT the RI blackface twin. Two totally different amps. One had (1) 15" the other had (2) 12's and is voiced different.

Donny,

The S-K was designed specifically for pedal steel, and it has far more power and a far more versatile EQ setup than the old (and rather limited) tone-stack in the RI Twin.

Interesting. I found the tone controls on the Steel King I owned to be rather limited. It was either brite or extremely brite. I could not find a way to roll off the highs.

I had used Peavey amps for so long I could not get anything out of my 1996 Custom Fender Vibrosonic that I liked. Finally took the suggestion of a forum member and turned the treble, bass, and mid all the way to 10. Backed off the trebble to around 7 1/2 and love the sound, once I cut the FAT switch off. The FAT switch just seemed to lower the input resistance and overdrive the sound for me. I am not using the steel side of the amp, I am using the guitar side of the amp. You don't get a Peavey sound out of a Fender amp, you get a Fender sound out of a Fender amp. I am really starting to like the sound I am getting out of my old Vibrosonic. It cuts like a knife. I am running the reverb on about 4 and using a Boss DD3 delay.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. What I was attempting to determine though was if anyone knew of any valid reason for Fender raising their amp prices so substantially. (being built in a different factory/country, higher quality components being used, stricter quality control, etc.) Seems like odd timing for such a move considering the state of the economy.

I agree David, given their continued quality problems its not a smart move that would sell more steel guitar amplifiers to the steel community.

I too was disappointed that the Blues Deluxe,(Mexican made, which I've been saving for), went from about $700, to $900, in the space of two months, in the discount catalogs. In the same time, the Epiphone Blues Custom,(which is made in China), went from $550, to $650. It sure doesn't stimulate me!

I see no build quality problems with Fenders from the 60's and most of the '70s. Worlds better than the new stuff, not even comparable. Lots of them easily found, priced very fairly, and they're better sounding too. I personally wouldn't waste my time or money with the new stuff knowing that the real ones can be had. Just the fact that so many 30 to 50 year old real Fenders are still operating just fine today in the professional world is a testament to this.


Brad

I had a Custom 15" reissue, and it broke up too early for me. And the mids were too hard to dial out. I didn't like it, although at first it wasn't too bad. My ear started to hate it after a while, though.

I now use a '71 SF Twin, which is really nice. Even with the BF AB763 mod, it sounds way better than the reissue for steel. It breaks up a bit, but in a good way. It is out of this world for Tele. And it looks way cooler as well:



The rise in Fender prices has nothing to do with quality. They have jacked up guitars, amps, everything. THe stuff is no better, just more expensive. A real nutty move at this bad economic time, but who knows. I guess they have some kind of plan in place.

Brad Sarno wrote:I see no build quality problems with Fenders from the 60's and most of the '70s. Worlds better than the new stuff, not even comparable. Lots of them easily found, priced very fairly, and they're better sounding too. I personally wouldn't waste my time or money with the new stuff knowing that the real ones can be had. Just the fact that so many 30 to 50 year old real Fenders are still operating just fine today in the professional world is a testament to this.


Brad

+1 with a bullet. IMHO, silverface Fender amps - especially the pre-73 amps - are still the best value in the vintage amp market, even though their prices have gone up substantially in the last several years.

I don't know what's with all the recent extreme MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) increases. Of course, MAP is just a minimum advertised price. It may help the high-profile big box stores and online retailers who rely on the advertised price to get a better gross margin, but I don't know their marketing rationale. I don't think the retail (and hence wholesale prices) have gone up that much. I would dicker - my local music store buds routinely beat the big-box store prices these days. I'd rather do business locally anyway.

My 1996 Custom Fender Vibrosonic was made in Oregon by a Fender Custom Shop, and only 150 were made according to Sam Marshall of Fender. It is not just Fender Guitars and amps made over seas, almost everything is being made overseas. Look at the great quality of John Deere tractors made in Iowa, and Illinois in the 1960's and 1970's, compaired to the John Deere tractors of today made overseas. John Deere tractors coming from overseas nowdays are over priced and plastic! 85% or more of the stuff you buy at Wal-Mart comes from China. We need to take back this country from the people who have sold us out. Is this country going to become a total service economy, with nothing being made in this country.

I thoroughly agree Keith. We have been sold out. Amps and other goods need to be made HERE so that people have jobs, so they have money to buy things made HERE.

This may be a litle off topic, but here goes as regard to things made over seas. I can buy a hammer made in China for $6.00. I can buy a Vaughn and Bushnell hammer, made in America for $45.00. Which one would you buy?? Apply that difference to cell phones, computers, tv's etc. Just an observation. I'm not trying to start something, and I agree that we need to make more things here at at home. By the way, my grand father worked for Vaughn and Bushnell and made a good living doing piece work in their Hebron Illinois Assembly plant. By the way, I own a Vaughn and Bushnell Hammer.

And my experience with Fender service is it is no good at all. The don't fix anything, they refer you to a "Certified service tech." The last one cost me $500 for "warranty work." Fendr flat out refused to honor the waranty. They wouldn't budge.

Like Clyde above, I have been using a Hot Rod Deville (2x12)for all gigs which are double duty , Steel/Telecaster. I couldn't agree more with his comment regarding having a few different amps, they are tools after all.

I use the N400 for Steel only, The HR Deville for double duty, it has a great old Fender tone for Steel, way better than the Twins I have owned and a Peavey Classic 30 for Telecaster only gigs. Both the Peavey and the HR are Telecaster "sweet".

Regarding performance/reliability , the HR Deville is I believe from 2004 and has never been down. I changed tubes once maybe 2 years ago. It's a great reliable amp. I use this on the few sessions that I am invited to do, it has a great overall tone with a mid range that is not over bearing. And yes, it can handle pretty much all of my gigs no problem. Initially I had one of the first issue HR Deluxes, 40 watt, It was a great amp but did not have the clarity headroom for the Steel, I stepped up to the HR Deville, 60 watt, it solved that problem. Now , the N400 can easily blow the HR Deville out of the water for overall volume and clarity,but quite frankly that's not a requirement.

I thought of getting one of the new Fenders but dollar for dollar I just don't see it being a good value. I also thought of getting a 70'ish Twin, but after lifting it I decided that was not a good deal either !

t

This seems like as good a place as any for me to brag about my latest (and best ever)score.
1968 Fender Showman in what appears to be good condition...$100 on craigs list
Its at the amp techs right now getting a 3 prong power chord and a good going over. JOY!

Ben, you need an award for THAT score!! Way to go!! Want to double your money??

Yup, that's a great score, Ben. Great workhorse amps, not too heavy either. Just get your reverb from a pedal or rack unit if you want it, you should be good to go.

Bob Hoffnar wrote: I found the tone controls on the Steel King I owned to be rather limited. It was either brite or extremely brite. I could not find a way to roll off the highs.

Did you try lowering the mids? On most amps, lowering the mids is the best (read: easiest) route to a fatter, rounder tone. Running the mids above 30% may give you the ability to "cut through" in the mix, but it's done at the expense of quality.

Donny,
On the Steel King I owned I tried everything. The tone controls seemed interesting in concept but didn't help me to get a sound I was happy enough with to keep the amp.