The Steel Guitar Forum

Just heard the new Buddy and Julie Miller record. I guess Russ Pahl is playing on it if I'm correct. What great sound. My understanding is he tunes to an Eb9? Anyone confirm that? If so, I assume to have larger strings. I had a Pedabro that was D9th so I guess this is in between.

Just my li'l ole opinion, but I don't think Russ' great sound has anything to do with his string gauges or the fact he tunes to Eb9. It probably has very little to do with his amp settings. It has much more to do with his hands and his ears. Again, just MHO.

Larry, I totally agree! Russ does sound very good BTW.

There is definitely a difference in string guages and tunings as well as amps and amp settings. Guess otherwise we wouldn't have C6 necks and Brad Sarno would be out of business....

Guess I should've learned by now!!

Thanks though...

Ask when he gets back how much of Russ' sound Jeff attributes to string gauges and/or E vs Eb. Please let us know what he says. Frank and I have been at this for 70+ years between us. We've been 'round that block.

Yep. Way too much space has been contributed to this. I certainly appreciate your experience. As an engineer I had the pleasure of recording John Hughey and others and know there is no substitution for ears, hands, talent, etc.

Respectfully, though, there is a difference between guitars, strings, tunings, amps, tubes, effects, etc. None of those will turn any of us into Paul Franklin.... (I been around 35+ years too...)

Thank you though. You too are a great player.

That however wasn't the original question.

and I notice in your picture you too have figured out that Black Steels sound better than other colors. At least we agree on that!

David,
I am still interested in Jeff's assessment of the string gauge issue. I greatly respect his ear and his abilities. Realizing that you are a recording engineer puts a slightly different slant on your question. Sorry if I was judgmental.

Lets hear it for black steels. (my other two aren't, though)

No offense taken.

I guess I'm a bit of a tinkerer, and am always interested in that type of thing.

I was blessed to be able to work with John Hughey a couple of times at Capricorn in Macon,Ga in the 70s and then 20 years later moved in down the street from him when we moved to the Nashville area. He was such a gentleman but I couldn't resist pulling into his driveway when I saw him sitting in his garage on Indian Lake Rd. every so often.

He appeared to be a bit of a tinkerer himself and discussed single vs. humbuckers, 12 vs 15" speakers, mono vs. stereo, etc. He was always trying something different when I dropped in.

A lot of the Nashville guitar players have been tinkering with tuning a half step low, and of course baritone guitars and "tic tac" guitars have been used in Nashville for a while.

When Jeff Surratt was building my ShowPro (what a sweet guitar) we got to talking about PedaBros and other tunings and he mentioned that Russ experimented with effects, tunings, etc. so I was curious why. A great player like Russ obviously had something in mind and I find it interesting.

I think it may have been Tommy White that talked about straightening his picks out so he could play a little easier, so I think every steel player by nature is always experimenting with details.

I totally agree that nothing is important as ears, talent, touch, etc. That being said I did a couple of sessions for a producer, one with my new ShowPro and one with my previous guitar, (same ears and hands) and the producer said the new guitar sounded much fuller, etc. I also forgot my black box one day and that made a difference in the studio as well.

If you get a chance check out the Buddy Miller cut "The Selfishness of Man". Beautiful sound he gets, yet different than other sounds he got on Patty Loveless records. Both good just different.

After all this I sure hope it is him on the Buddy Miller record otherwise I've wasted a lot of time!!!

Blessings and thanks again....

I think if Paul Franklin quit today, the A team would probably be Mike Johnson, Dan Dugmore, Tommy Detamore and Russ Pahl.

David, to answer your question, Russ does tune down a half step and compensates with heavier gauges. In addition to his selection of notes and chords, Russ gets a unique sound because of his pickup experimentation. The last time I saw his guitar (LeGrande), it had three Jason Lollar single coils spaced apart like a Strat. He was playing through a blackface Princeton Reverb stuck in a closet!! Awesome player indeed.

btw, that guitar was rosewood.

I assumed Paul must have quit. No logical reason he wouldn't have been nominated for ACMs... that's like not nominating Tiger Woods for the Ryder Cup...

oops... was that my outside voice?

Yes, I too found that 'rather odd', to say the least...

Richard Sinkler wrote:I think if Paul Franklin quit today, the A team would probably be Mike Johnson, Dan Dugmore, Tommy Detamore and Russ Pahl.

That is the A-Team minus a few.

Honestly there are plenty of people... myself included that would call Dan and Russ long before Paul. Nothing to do with talent or tone... for me Dan and Russ just emote more with the track. Paul is an AMAZING player but sometimes you don't need an amazing player... you need "just right" and for my sensibilities Dan and Russ get you there... first take. All that on top of being two of my favorite people to hang out with.

Man I hope am not starting a war with this post...

No war to start. All great players. I'd consider it a privilege to have any of them on a session. I just can't afford a couple of them...

Peace.

Russ Pahl = Sky Blue Water Boys

Isn`t Tommy Detamore in Texas ? Not that he wouldn`t be A-team in Nashville if he worked there....

The ACM's have a new rule about the musicians category. It started a few years back. We were winning every year for a decade. The ACM board decided that if a player wins it one year they are automatically excluded from the next years awards to be fair to all. I was honored with a win last year.

Paul Franklin

That makes sense. So I guess Tiger Woods can't play on the Ryder Cup this year...

Larry-

Russ Pahl just called me and enlightened me some on my questions. He said he uses a second pickup at the 24th fret. He said he experiments a lot but seems to think maybe he had a P90 or a Jazzmaster type pickup on that guitar. He said he also has started winding his own. I think Surratt may have given him a winder, but not totally sure on that.

He said he likes it to sound more like a guitar, and the second pickup along with the flat tuning is a fuller sound. He likes kind of an out of phase Strat sound.

He said he hadn't heard the Buddy Miller record yet.

He also said he believes he used an old Princeton with a 10" speaker on the session with maybe a little distortion before the amp.

Anyway it's a nice sound...

Yes, Tommy is in Texas. But, If he was able to pick up 1/4 of Paul's work, he might just consider moving there.

Is This The Same Russ Pahl That's Playing With Vince Gill Your Talking About ????? If So He Was In
Des Moines, Iowa Sunday night With A Double Body PP E9th Neck Only, He Did Say He Was Winding His Own Pickups. And Did say he was tuning different.

Same one.

I often wonder what ever happened to the ZB Double 10 that I sold Russ back in the 90's. I think he got a pack seat from me too. I remember talking with him on the phone. At the time I did not know he was one of the 'Cream of the Crop' steel players down there in Nashville.

Ernie Pollock
http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

Richard Sinkler wrote:I think if Paul Franklin quit today, the A team would probably be Mike Johnson, Dan Dugmore, Tommy Detamore and Russ Pahl.

As much as I appreciate being mentioned in the same sentence as these greats, it reminds me of those multiple choice questions you used to get in school:

Which one of these animals doesn't belong in the group:

1. Bear
2. Deer
3. Squirrel
4. Trout

I am definitely the trout. (although at times I have been known to be a squirrel)

Richard, with all due respect, I really think you have the wrong Tommy in this list. But thanks....