The Steel Guitar Forum

Well, my father left me his '37 Ric 7 string Bakelite when he passed. I have always played "regular" guitar, and he had been a steel player all his life. Of all the things there were to discuss, I guess tuning never entered the equation!!

Now he is gone, and if the threads around tuning are any indication, it appears I have missed an opportunity for a really spirited discussion.

My current guitars are Fender strats and Gibson ES335 and a Gibson SG with P90's. I love the blues, and seldom venture into the country realm. I have played around with open tuning on my SG (usually open G).

I have read everything I can on the Ric, and it appears that it is perfect for the blues, with the bigger magnet, 22.5 scale length, etc.. but all the tuning discussions I can find are around either 6 or 8 string steels (or 10 string pedal steels).

Can someone suggest a starting tuning point for finding your way around a pent scale.. along with some corresponding string gauges that I can get grounded with?

Any other tips or hints to a beginner lap steel player that enjoys the blues would also be welcome!

WHY NOT visit the jerrybyrd-fanclub.com/

There's an entire section on the guitar you've described, including tunings and strings.

You've got a fine guitar. Treat it with love.

WHY? Limit your thinking that the g'tar is best for BLUES???? You can play anything you desire on that guitar.

Good Luck!

Hi Al,

If I were in your (lucky)shoes I would use a C6 tuning high to low E,C,A,G,E,C,A, or 3,1,6,5,3,1,6 in key of C. I have found this to be a very versatile tuning and a great base from which to start. I believe that this was the tuning used by the wonderful Jerry Byrd.

This tuning allows a lot of open string playing in many keys and is an easy retune for other useful and popular tunings such as A6 E,C#,A,F#,E,C#,A or 5,3,1,6,5,3,1.

you might like to look at Rick Aiello's site here

http://www.horseshoemagnets.com/_sgg/m7_1.htm

which has a good explanation of the various tuning concepts.

I found one of these guitars like yours on the net but unfortunately far too expensive for my resources. In the very unlikely event that you should ever wish to part with your guitar i would love to hear from you!!

I am sure many of the fine and experienced players here on the forum will have other ideas about which tuning is best. Anyway, I hope this helps

Regards,

JD

Thanks for the replies.. this is a great start. To clarify, Al was my father.. I am down in Dunellon to scatter his ashes and help get a few things in order before returning to Minnesota.. My name is Hal Braun, and I will join the forum officially once I get home to my computer. (Will put in a couple of pictures at the same time).

I do feel lucky to have received this gift, I just wish it was under different circumstances!

PS. I don't limit myself or the guitar to blues/blues rock.. my limited talent does that for me!

One quick question.. when looking at 6 string tuning, do you normally look at adding a tone to the "top" or putting it somewhere else? Also, when looking at 8 string tuning.. what do you typically drop? Since almost all tunings I can find are described in either 6 or 8 string examples.. is there a rule of thumb for modifying those tunings for 7 strings?

Thanks!

Hello Hal
Sounds like your dad's passing was pretty recent...my condolences to you and your family. It'll be nice to be able to enjoy something that was special to your father, though.

I keep my 7 string tuned to C6 1356135 low to high. Works very well for me. For more chord possibilities for Jazz and swing, it might be good to have the low 6 (A) as suggested earlier instead of the high 5. Maybe even a low B-note. Either way, the beauty of the tuning is in it's versatility.
For Hawaiian, Western Swing and Vintage Country, it's perfect, of course, but it's possible to really tear up some blues and there are some great jazz possibilities, too. Just search on You-Tube and you'll find example after example of incredible playing - plenty of it from members of this forum.

If the C6 really doesn't suit your fancy, you might be comfortable with an extended E tuning - something with a 1-5-1 in the bottom.
Good luck and have fun with it...
J A

Hal, Firstly my sincere condolences. With regard to the six string steel guitar it depends on the tuning. The old Hawaiian tunings in intervals were often top to bottom 5,3,1,5,3,1, adding the 6 made them 3,1,6,5,3,1 or 1,6,5,3,1,6 or 5,3,1,6,5,1. The more strings the greater the range. I feel the 7 string option was added in order to add the 3 on the top.

If you want to play in a lower register for boogies and the like you could try 1,6,5,3,1,6,4 (this reflects strings 3-9 on a 10 string C6.

The 6 tone can sound too Hawaiian at first to many ears so you can try it with a 7 tone instead. Or just give it a go with 5,3,1,5,3,1, at first which is good for an Elmore James or Hop Wilson sound. Nothing saying you have to have all 7 strings on your guitar anyway.

Part of the increase in strings over the years appears to be in order to add range at both ends. I don't think there is a general rule. Essentially, it is all there with 6 strings irrespective of the tuning. In fact 4 strings can take you a long way! The best way to find what works for you is to try a few different things for your self and see which you like the sound of. One of the wonderful things with steel is that there is no one way. It is all music.

There is plenty of information on the forum about tunings and most players pedal or non pedal seem to have a preference for one or the other. My only tip is to keep thinking music and not get too bogged down in right or wrong tunings hence recommending the C6. If you have a good steel player in your area the investment in a lesson or two is well worth the effort.

I hope this is not confusing, I am sure someone else will be able to give you a better explanation. Anyway, best wishes and have fun discovering the steel.

Regards,

JD

Hal,
I'm very sorry for your loss. That guitar will always be special for the memories it holds and who held it until now.
I too have 37 Bakelite B7 which is my most cherished guitar. I play it in open E with the G# on top and love the music I can make. My tastes are more in the blues, rock genre, so this may work for you too.
Be gentle with those old tuners. They are irreplaceable. I use a standard light set of strings with an extra 9 for the G#.
You'll never want for a better sounding guitar. In my opinion, there are no better.

Steve, (and everyone) thank you for your thoughts, Dad passed last Tuesday, and you are right that this was his most prized guitar.. over his Sho Bud and his National Steel. He took it with him everywhere he traveled. I am a mediocre guitar player.. but enjoy it.. so there you go.

Was wondering.. one of the more common open tunings for a standard guitar in G.. (ala Kieth Richards, etc.) Is this used much in the steel world?

Also, thanks for the heads up re. light gauge strings, my tendency would have been to go with a set of 11's or so.. maybe the custom set with the light top/heavy bottoms..

Whoah, Hal, what a beauty! Sorry to hear of your Dad's passing. If he was a forum member you should also post this in the Gone Home section.

These are some of the most highly regarded steels and your Dad's is exceptional.

Do yourself a favor and listen to some Jerry Byrd. He played one of these guitars and you'll get a good idea of what they sounded like because no one sounded better on this guitar than Jerry Byrd and Sol Hoopii. I'll bet you Dad had a bunch of Jerry Byrd records. Go have a look.

Anyway, follow the link the Jerry Byrd Fan Club that Ray Montee provided above in his post.

Hello Hal,

I'm sorry to hear about your dad, and please accept my condolences.

About 6 or 7 years ago, I bought an 8 string metal Dobro from Al. There was a related discussion on the old "No Peddlers" board and he mentioned that he had a guitar that he'd like to sell.

So I emailed him and then we spoke several times. He was a salt of the earth gentleman. He played in a band and one time dropped the dobro when his strap broke....so he built a stand for this metal Dobro out of a brake hub, 3" pipe, and fabricated a cradle out of metal that he welded to the top. It was very innovative,...and man, that thing was heavy!....nothing was going anywhere with this stand....I think it could have supported a building.

He shipped the guitar & stand separately. When I opened the box for the stand, I saw that he had built a wooden frame for it....he built it so well, bolted it, and cut out a variety of small wood supports & bracing so the stand couldn't move a 1/64 of an inch. I almost had to call in a contractor & construction crew to disasemble this whole thing.

I enjoyed my conversations with Al and of course his word was his bond, as was mine.....we call that "old school"......what a nice man.

You have a treasure there Hal......not just because it's a pre war 7 string Ric.....but a family heirloom with memories and soul that cannot be replaced for ANY amount of money.

regards, Howard

Hi Hal,
That is a classic beauty if ever there was one!
I hope you never sell it . .

7 strings are perfect for A6 tuning.
Here are the gauges that would work for it:
[tab]
E - .015
C# - .018
A - .022
F# - .026
E - .030
C# - .034
A - .042
[/tab]

For more tunings and recommended gauges, look here.

b0b carries Jagwire nickel wound strings on the forum - free shipping and he gets them to you FAST:
http://pedalsteelmusic.com/strings.html

You can do a search both here in Steel Without Pedals and the old No Peddlers board.

While C6 is one of the most verstile tunings, and certainly works for blues....there are other tunings that are more applicable for blues....of course, if you later decide to venture outside of the blues genre, then C6 is very important.

Sacred Steel (you can search this) is a good source for listening to blues based steel guitar....and E7 is the popular choice here.....

I have an 8 string steel tuned to Lonnie Bennett's E7....which I love.....the thing about E7 is that it's a "strum tuning" where you don't have to avoid the sixths......

1. E
2. D
3. B
4. G#
5. E
6. E
7. B
8. E

IMO, this is such a great blues tuning, that it even makes me look like I can hold a bar.....just eliminate one of the middle E's.....

Here's some Sacred Steel with The Campbell Brothers....Darrick Campbell also has an instructional video on lap/non pedal steel.....from Homespun Tapes.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKARiItP1EU

Al: I've got two 7-string Ricks with one hexigon knob on the far side; and, one 7-string Rick with two knobs on the far side. I'd love to have a 7-string Rick with the two knobs installed on opposite sides as yours displays.
YOU have an extremely beautiful guitar. I DO envy you. Take care and guard it with your life.

Howard, you made me laugh and cry at the same time. I remember that chrome Dobro well! Before he had the Ric, he would travel with that. I lived on a boat in San Francisco with my wife, and sent him and Vicki tickets to come visit.. I told them it was a small boat.. so bring soft luggage, etc.

He shows up at the airport with 3 big old samsonite old school hard suitcases and that dobro in a hard case.. (of course) He would sit in the cockpit while we drank beer and played that dobro out in the open air.. it was magic. From the sounds of it, it went to another gentleman.. thanks for the memories! (I also remember that stand, and cannot believe he shipped it! It would hold up a corner of a building in a hurricane!)