The Steel Guitar Forum

Can i backup my Western Digital 500GB hard drive using windows? I was told i can. I thought i had to buy a software program to do it,something like "Norton Ghost"?
I want to backup or "Clone" my 500GB external drive to another 500GB external drive, so my music is safe just in case. I can take one with me, and have one at home. Here are the instructions he gave me, and said should work??

Just copy them through Windows Explorer the same way you would copy any file. I would copy the Folder and all from one external to the other. Right click on the Folder on current drive and choose "Copy", go to the new drive and right click (in the file list area) and choose "Paste." That will copy the Folder name and all its contents.

Cass;
The copying you described is valid, but, the problem is you have to do this manually and it takes up as much space as the original files you are copying (1:1 copy). There are better, automated ways to create compressed backups (2:1+) to any other hard or USB drive that Windows sees.

You can create a new Backup Job, using the built-in Windows Backup utility (assuming you are running a Windows computer). Proceed as follows:

Go to Start > (All) Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Backup. Click on the Backup Wizard button to begin. You will choose the source files and folders, then the destination location to save the combined backup file. Create a scheduled backup "job" using the backup scheduler in the Wizard, to run the task as often as you want.

Windows Backups can only be saved to disks or thumb drives, not to CD or DVD media.

Norton Ghost is similar to Acronis True Image, but costs a lot more. Both of these programs are different than the Windows backup utility in that they are able to create a true clone of your hard drive, or any file and folders in it. Windows Backup only backs up files and folders, not programs and registry settings (exception: Backup of System State). The images are compressed to whatever degree you select and you can view the files inside them and even extract one file at a time, if needed.

Some of us on this forum are using Acronis True Image to make daily or weekly backups of our entire computer. These are clone-like image files that contain everything on the selected disks, including Windows Activation and all licenses and programs and settings. If something goes wrong with our computers we can use the rescue CD we were instructed to create to locate our preferred saved image, then restore it to the C drive, in about a half hour or so.

Thanks so much Wiz for that explanation. I will pick up the Acronis True Image software and give it a try.
Cass

Wiz, it sounds like Cass is talking about two external drives that only have music (and maybe other personal files, but not system files). In that case it seems like doing a real backup is sort of overkill. If it were me I'd just copy the files.

Maybe I'm assuming too much, though. If the original drive is an internal one and has Windows on it then like you say, Acronis or Windows Backup is a better choice.

John you are correct. I have a 500GB Western Digital "My Book" external HD. I simply am going to attempt to back it up. I found this neat little Toshiba 250GB external HD at Best Buy. It fits in my purse. Can haul it to work, or wherever. I have about 150GB on the HD is all. Cass

wait, I thought my external HD was my backup.. Does that mean I have to be paranoid and backup my backup? Waht about the back - backup.. does that need a redundant backup too?

Cass:

Take a look at Second Copy:

www.centered.com

Here is a complete review:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2274838,00.asp

It is designed to back up data files, rather than your entire system, and I gather that is what you are trying to do.

Second Copy copies files to any device that appears to Windows as a disk drive (hard disk, floppy disk, network drive, removable hard disks, CD-Rewritables etc.)

I have been using it successfully for close to 10 years.

You can download it to test for 30 days at no charge. If you want to keep it, send them $29.95 by check, money order, or electronically and they will send you a registration key number to keep your downloaded copy active for as long as you own it.

The application has been under continuous development for a decade, so it has very few issues.

The interface is easily understood and walks you through what you want to back up, where, when, etc. It is highly configurable--you can back up everything, only stuff in a certain directory, only certain types of files, etc. And you have complete control over when it runs--manually, automatically, etc.

If you try it out, I would be glad to help you with the configuration, but it is largely self-explanatory and you shouldn't have much trouble with it.

Bo Borland wrote:wait, I thought my external HD was my backup.. Does that mean I have to be paranoid and backup my backup? Waht about the back - backup.. does that need a redundant backup too?

No. Cass has files on his external that aren't backups and haven't been backed up.

I have an older version of Ghost I use to clone my drives. For a disk with an operating system, I prefer cloning to compressed backups because the backup drive could be used as a boot disk if needed that way (assuming the backup program copies the MBR and all too). For Linux-only computers, rsync is the way to go.

Mitch, that is exactly what i want to do. I will check your links during my lunch hour. Thanks so so much. Cass

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but Wiz?; I don't recall seeing in Acronis where you need a CDbackup. I thought the Acronis backup on your external HDD was all you needed to re-install Windows.

What you need, Chip, is a bootable CD that loads Acronis. When your hard drive fails you boot to this CD and then restore the hard drive from your backup. Open Acronis and look under the tools menu for "Create bootable rescue media" and make yourself one.

Thanks Lou,

That sounds easy enough; but exactly what is meant by "boot to this CD"?

I've always been a bit confused about "booting", and just how it works.

Chip Fossa wrote:Thanks Lou,

That sounds easy enough; but exactly what is meant by "boot to this CD"?

I've always been a bit confused about "booting", and just how it works.

Chip;
That is the right question Detective!

To "boot" a computer one starts it up from being powered off. To reboot you restart without shutting it off. Either operation clears the contents of the system memory modules and usually also clears the contents of the pagefile.

The term "boot," as applied to a computer, is an abbreviation for "Bootstrapping" - literally meaning "to pull oneself up by one's bootstraps." See this Wiki article for details: http://tinyurl.com/2hzjx5

Bootstrapping a Computer

When you switch on:

1: The processor starts executing the ROM
2: The ROM loads and executes the boot sector
3: The boot sector loads and executes the rest of the OS

The term might have entered computer jargon by way of Rudolf Erich Raspe's The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, where the main character pulls himself out of a swamp by his shoe laces or Robert A. Heinlein's short story By His Bootstraps.

To expand on the bootable cd thing...

2: The ROM loads and executes the boot sector

You tell your computer, by way of BIOS settings, which devices to examine for a boot sector, and in what order they should be examined. On my PC the order is 1) CD-ROM, 2) floppy drive, and 3) hard drive C.

If the BIOS finds a bootable CD in the CD-ROM drive, it boots from that CD. If it can't boot from the CD-ROM drive, it next checks the floppy drive, and boots from that if it can. If the floppy drive isn't bootable, it goes to my C drive.

But,

Where does the latest Acronis backup on External Drive K: (for me) enter into this chain of events.

This is what's confusing. Just what is on the executable CD I made earlier in Acronis?

Chip Fossa wrote:But,

Where does the latest Acronis backup on External Drive K: (for me) enter into this chain of events.

This is what's confusing. Just what is on the executable CD I made earlier in Acronis? :(

Chip;
Unless you create a bootable recovery CD, as described earlier and in the Acronis documentation, you cannot restore and image outside of Windows, or whatever operating system you use. But, you can initiate a restore session from within Windows and it will complete when you reboot.

The Acronis Recovery Media contains a Linux operating system and is bootable on any modern computer, running any operating system. The Recovery atmosphere will launch into a graphical interface which allows you to specify the task you wish to perform. You can specify Restore an Image, then browse all connected drives until you find the desired backup file. Once you initiate the restoration and select the C drive as the destination, the image will be decompressed and will overwrite the contents of the C drive.

One thing you must bear in mind when doing a restore is to select the entire Computer to restore, including the MBR and all partitions. The MBR is the Master Boot Record and is what the PC must read if it is to boot up. This record contains the information about the operating system.

Restoring an image takes a lot less time than installing the operating system, updating it, installing security, then programs, then files and settings. In my case it took about a half hour to restore an 80 Gb disk (about 30 Gb compressed). I also expanded the image to fill a new 250 Gb disk.

Thanks Wiz,

Uh -oh. Is the MBR automatically included in a fullback in Acronis?

I don't recall, when backing up, of seeing MBR. Maybe it is there and if I saw it, probably ignored it, because I didn't know what it was anyway, until now.

Whoops. Ignore the previous thread.

I just re-read, and you would only see MBR when actually restoring. OK.

Things are becoming much clearer with Acronis, now.

Thanks guys.

Now wait a minute...... i have a complete copy of my OS already stored on my new Dell. So why can't i just restore from that? What is that for then? All this tech talk has me just a little confused. Cass

I'm far from the pro here, Cass, but the way I see it (now), is if you were to boot from the Dell copy you already have, say in 8 months from now, or even today (depending on when you made that OS copy, or if it came automatically created with the new Dell), you would not be able to recapture any new things and programs you will have put on your PC, since then.

ie. - to be saved, all new entries must be recorded somewhere or backed-up.

But, according to Wiz and the other Pros, taking an IMAGE of all things on your HDD is the only way to capture all of the confusing things that go on behind the scenes in running the PC. Having an image of the HDD makes it so much quicker to restore everything as you have come to know it.
It just saves a lot headaches.

Hope this helped, a little. The Pros will more than likely be right along.

Cass Broadview wrote:Now wait a minute...... i have a complete copy of my OS already stored on my new Dell. So why can't i just restore from that? What is that for then? All this tech talk has me just a little confused. Cass

Cass;
Using the hidden restore partition (or a supplied restoration CD) will restore your PC to the same condition it was in when it was manufactured and tested at the factory. All of your installed programs, updates, fixes, registration licenses, saved files and settings will be lost. You will have to rerun Windows Updates consecutively, until the computer is completely up to date. Then, you'll have to reinstall (and probably re-register) all of the programs you have been using and recreate personal settings. Your personal documents, settings and email will be lost unless they are exported via the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard, then imported into the fresh installation.

This is a last ditch solution to be used in the event of total corruption of the operating system. This path is usually used by service shops that have to restore computers infected with rootkits. The cost of fixing the problem usually exceeds the cost of a system reinstallation via a restore disk or hidden partition.

Saving complete computer images solves this problem because everything is backed up and can be restored. If you save daily images your PC will never be more than one day out of date, should an image restoration become necessary.

i have a complete copy of my OS already stored on my new Dell.

Cass, I'm not a Dell guy, but I'm guessing that you're referring to the restore partition on your hard drive. Look in 'My Computer" and see if there isn't a hard drive named "Dell" or "recovery" or some such. It's not really another hard drive, but a portion of the one physical hard drive you have, which is reserved for this purpose. If you use the recovery CD that probably came with your machine it reads this partition to restore your machine to its factory-fresh state - including all the freeware and other junk you probably didn't want. This procedure, as Chip said, wipes away everything you have added, created or installed since you got the machine, including security updates.

None of this restore partition business does you any good if your hard drive fails physically and can't be accessed. That's why there are programs like Acronis, Norton Ghost, et. al.

Just saw Wiz's reply - he says it better than I did.