The Steel Guitar Forum

So this is the Miller I got off of Craigslist for fifty bucks the other day. Thought I would post some pics and see if you guys had any ideas as to which way I should go with it.

I am a pretty mechanical guy and it might be fun to rework this steel and bring her back to life. But then again it might be a nightmare.

Everything that I have heard about Millers is that they are very limited mechanically but that almost make it seem like I might be able to get her back up and running easier than I otherwise would be. Just looking at the bottom it is pretty obvious how everything works and what goes where.

My only real question is seen in the last two pictures. What the heck is that extra last knee lever attach to and why is the attachment so long?

Also is there anyone out there that is familiar with millers who I should ask about parts and possibly doing the work?

Also I don't have any legs or pedals. Will 1/2" pipe work temporarily? I could call it my ghetto steel.

Thanks for any opinions or guidance.
Ben

Check this:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... ght=miller

Contact Paul Redmond for help.

Russ

Wow! Those undercarriage parts look pretty rugged. She be might a fine guitar after a little work.

thats what I was thinking ...

some of those other pull-release guitars (old MSAs Marlins) had some pretty nice tones, didn't they?

I don't have opinions from experience about the mechanics. They look mighty clunky. And there are many reasons all manufacturers moved away from pull-and-release changers. But they have the advantage of being simple. I'm thinking an experienced player and good mechanic could get that thing working okay, because they know how a pedal steel is supposed to feel and play. But it's not a project I would wish on a beginner who doesn't necessarily know what he is shooting for.

Most legs are made from adjustable mike stands turned upside down and capped with a rubber foot on the bottom. You could pick up a set from Bobbe Seymour at Steel Guitar Nashville in Hendersonville for not much more than you would pay for pipe. Looks like they would screw right in, would be adjustable, and the chrome plating would dress up that ugly relic.

It looks like the undercarriage parts came from the transmission of a John Deere tractor!

Looks like if you cleaned it up, it would make a pretty cool C6 non pedal rig. Easy. For fifty bucks...sweet. (thats five bucks per interval!)
Good luck.

Hell Ben, I'll give you a hundred bucks for it right now, plus shipping. That's 100% profit right from the start......JH in Va.

I found mine like this:



It ended up like this:



The black crinkle paint is just that, paint. I dipped mine in Jacsco and the paint just about fell off. The metal will be rough underneath, kind of like stainless steel. I sanded and polished mine.

The keyhead is a two piece and the bridge part can have some movement since it only had two scews and the bridge kind of stands up. It was meant to help reduce detuning due to temperature but I think you pay for it there. Someone suggested adding another piece to it that would go back under the neck since it's hollow. That would help stablize it.

On yours it looks like somebody added extentions to the place were the pedal rod goes. That period of Miller only had one place to put your pull rod so you had less pedal travel and feel possibilities. The other place that you can alter travel and feel is when it has the longer bell cranks such as on your LKL cross shaft. The hole farthest from the cross shaft will give you more travel of the finger with less travel of the knee. Those things make a big difference when you have two or three changes on one finger. And yes you can do that.

You can have things like an F lever to work. You'll need to thread the end of the rod next to the bell crank. Then get brass colars with the same thread inside. You tune the F with the knee lever stop and then tune the second string of that pull with the brass tuner. I can give you details if you need them. People say unkind things about this sytem but it can work the way it is. I've seen Marlin undersides and I doubt that they are much if at all better mechanically. Roger Miller used cast parts so they look rough, but they seem to work.

This system does take some set up to get it right and your parts need to move feely. Those springs are adjustable and that can help. Again, let me know it you need help. You tune it in a strange way especially with knee levers and I can give you and idea of that if you need it.


One last thing, the scale is 23 so if you don't have a pedal board that may or may not be an issue when using some other brand and getting it to fit. I assume the legs will bend enough but I don't know.

Thanks for the advice on the Digidesign.

Steve

Ok can you tell I'm not in the mood to get to work this morning?

Someone has removed the allen wrench crews that go through you pedal rod cranks. That's where the pedal rod goes. That is where you set the pedal travel. You can do it without those like a sho bud permanent by using the stop of having the fingers hit the guitar body but in order to get your C pedal working with your E lever and your F which your guitar has, you will need to tune your C pedal or least one of the strings of that pull at the missing screw.

your F lever is missing the collars behind the crank. It is also missing the allen wrench knee lever travel screw over nexk to where the pedals attach.

Your E lever is missing a colar and the same allen wrench screw for travel. That one is where you tune your open 4th string.

If there is a string that both raises and lowers on a pull-release system, a spring is used (usually on the knee lever that does the lowering) to hold the string in the centre position.
On my pull-release steel, the mid-position note is tuned at the knee lever.

I think it looks pretty good, and it can all be made new again. Hell, anything that comes with strings, a pickup, and tuners, is worth $50. I don't think the 1/2 in pipe will work tho; wrong threads. The threads in the steel should be 1/2 X 13, not pipe threads. Good luck with this old beauty. You might consider changing the changer and re-plumb the whole thing??

Fred

Thanks, Russ, for the endorsement!!! Yes, I did just recently rebuild Byron Towle's D-10 Miller and pics of it are on this Forum if you do a search. Cass Broadview posted them for me, so I'd start there. I also have a Miller S-10 that is waiting in the wings for a resto job. They are admittedly clunky in design and not very sophisticated mechanically. But they sound great!!! DON'T even think about screwing pipe-thread "legs" into a leg socket with a different pitch thread. I can't be more emphatic than that. If you do that, you're just asking for a problem for sure.
On BT's guitar, I made a new pedal rack as the original Miller rack was cast and was very heavy due to its extremely thick wall section. I also made new changer fingers with a 7/16" radius instead of the Miller 3/8" radius. Not necessary, but since I was re-inventing the wheel, I went all out.
Bottom line is that that guitar, despite its so-called obsolete pull/release system, plays so well that it was actually shocking to me. True, I did build an entirely new pull system for it, putting that aside, I really found out what these guitars are capable of. The pull/release system isn't entirely dead by a long shot. Yes, they are simple and direct, AND they work without balance springs and leverages and all the rot you must endure on scissors-type changers.
For $50 you got a great cabinet and that alone is worth its price. How much do you anticipate spending to make it a job-playable workhorse guitar. The sky is the limit, but I would be interested in doing the work for you if you wish on a limited-budget basis.
Send me a private email...prairiewindmusic@gmail.com.
PRR

It looks like the undercarriage parts came from the transmission of a John Deere tractor!

I was going to guess a Hoyt-Clagwell tractor. I think Sam Drucker still has parts for those.

Heres the one I had.It had a good sound but had a lot of parts missing so I had to make some. It looks like this steel is complete to me.

Bill, That's a great looking machine you have there but, it looks like you could use some rubber feet on those legs... You can get them at True Value.

Fred

Your rite Fred, This was when I first got it.
I guess the rubber feet were opitional.

Just sent this as an email to Paul but I realized it was valid as a response on the forum as well...

Thanks for all of the great info on the miller.

I posted my story on the forum here.

I haven't even started playing yet and I am a bit worried about learning on this guitar.

If I can get it going for under five hundred bucks I am willing to invest the money.

If it is going to cost much more than that I will probably pick up a Genesis or Stageone to learn on.

I am a bit overwhelmed with all of the tech talk since I am not totally certain what a "finger" is right now.

My idea for the 1/2 pipe as legs is obviously not going to work. I used to manage a hardware store and the fact that mic stands don't use a "standard" thread drove me nuts... same with a pedal steel I guess.

If I can get the under carriage of this beauty rebuilt for less than five hundred I will be willing to do the cosmetic work... that I know I can do. I just think that it is looking unlikely now.

She might have to go in the closet for now while I learn more about steel and/or have more funding to make it happen right. I don't want to ruin it and I don't want to half-a&@ it.

How off base am I?

Hey Ben, it's not impossible, and it doesn't have to cost you a fortune. What I did here ran about $500., but you don't need a new body, or neck, or headstock with tuners. I turned this:



Into this:




It took about 4 months to complete.. You can do it..

Fred

So I am gonna do it!! After much consideration I am going to start off by cleaning her up, getting some legs, and start off with getting two or three pedals working.

If anyone has legs or a pedal assembly lying around let me know. I am sure I will be asking a lot more questions here as I get working on it.

Thanks all,
Ben

Ben: I have a 1971 Miller single 10 3 peddals no knees, very similer to yours . It was bought at a music store by a friend of mine . He also is a beginner. The guitar was nowhere near playable. He payed $ 650.00 with no guarantee. He went and bought a new fessenden and Gave it to me to work on it. It cost me about $ 10.00 and two mos. of labor, bottom line ,it plays beutiful, all original except a few modifications "Ralph"

Ok Ben, here you go: Any part that you might need can be purchased from Chuck Back at "Desert Rose Steels". He has tons of parts, he also owns "Rusler" and has all the parts for them.

Go to www.desertroseguitars.com and you'll find his phone number and email address. If you had tons of money, you could send him that guitar and get back a whole new one... You can also get the best case in the world (sorry Fred) for $135.00. Good luck on your adventure Ben.

Fred

For the legs get aluminum tubing. I dont know the
size, but make sure 1/2 USS Threads will fit in the
end. If you cannot find a stud with 1/2 inch USS
threads get some bolt rod. You can insert it down
into the tubing and drill a small hole thru the
side and put a dowel pin. This will be high enough
up it will not be noticeable. Then get some rubber
feet. This is what Carter Starters have.
You can polish the aluminum and get a little shine.

I can't even imagine anyone letting a guitar like a Miller get in that condition. But maybe Paul could help you out on it. If you can't contact him, write me to get in touch with him. Cass