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Topic: When was the Straight Steel generally displaced by pedals ? |
Ed Altrichter
From:
Schroeder, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 1:52 am |
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I'm trying to pin-point a one or two year time
frame here . . .
After Bud Isaacs introduced the pedal steel guitar sound to country music circa 1952, in about what year would it have become more likely to hear pedal steel guitar being played by live bands in public venues like honky-tonks and beer joints throughout the nation ?
Or, about what year would it still be more likely
to hear non-pedal steel played by bands in a bar ? In other words, how quickly was the straight steel displaced by the pedal steel in bands playing in
public places outside of recording studios ?
ED |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 5:38 am
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| Quote: |
how quickly was the straight steel displaced by the pedal steel in bands playing in
public places outside of recording studios ? |
It wasn't..
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 10:00 am
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| sure it was basil...remember..you could buy any non-pedal steel for 30 or 40 bucks for many years. i think he's asking a valid question and i'm curious too. especially relating to country bands in honky tonks. of course there were some non-pedal hold outs and always will be. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 10:03 am
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| As Basil said, it never has been replaced, and never will be. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 10:05 am
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| displaced, not replaced! c'mon you old fuddy duddies. are you too far gone to grasp this concept? |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 10:16 am
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A-ha ! So now we are OLD FUDDY DUDDYS! Someday you'll be where we are pal. Let's remember another old "Fuddy Duddy" who was playing pedals when Bud Isaac was just a kid....ALVINO REY, the fuddy duddy FATHER of the pedal guitar.  |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 10:25 am
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Towards 1960 and well beyond, it became almost impossible for even the best steelers to get work, especially in the studio. Let's remember that Jerry Byrd, of all people, was reduced to menial labor jobs to provide for his family. To quote his very good friend, Chet Atkins, the Father of the Nashville Sound, "I'd like to use you Jerry, but they want that sound". If Chet couldn't/wouldn't utilize the greatest steeler on a single record at that point, it pretty much tells you that pedal steel wiped out steel guitar in large part for many years.
I'd say by the mid 60s, you'd be hard pressed to find anything but pedal steel in the clubs.
Last edited by Ron Whitfield on 2 Jan 2009 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 10:28 am
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I started playing pedals in 1974. By then, it was hard to find work in country bands if you didn't have pedals. They didn't want to hear the old sound so much. My guess is that the change happened in the early 60's, which is why there are so many Fender 400 and 1000 pedal steels around.
Today there's a resurgence, largely driven by rock and "Americana" bands where the lead guitarist doubles on lap steel.
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 3:36 pm
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| When "Slowly" came out. That was it. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 4:14 pm
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Fender started producing pedal steel guitars in 1958. Sho-Bud started in the late '50s. Emmons and MSA started in the early 1960s.
I would say that by the mid 1960s there were more pedal steels than non-pedal steels in bar bands. The changeover took place in the mid '60s, in my opinion. I remember seeing pedal steel guitarists in 1966, and after that. That was about the time I started going out to hear live music. By the 1970s there were very few if any non-pedal players in my area.
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 5:36 pm
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You're assuming that the steel guitar is the sole property of Country Music. I don't see Hawaiian musicians jumping to the pedal steel. In a hundred years they'll still be using non-pedal.  |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 5:48 pm
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| You're assuming that the steel guitar is the sole property of Country Music. I don't see Hawaiian musicians jumping to the pedal steel. |
You're right Alan, but Ed's original question made reference to "country music", "honky-tonks", and "beer joints".
| Quote: |
| After Bud Isaacs introduced the pedal steel guitar sound to country music circa 1952, in about what year would it have become more likely to hear pedal steel guitar being played by live bands in public venues like honky-tonks and beer joints throughout the nation ? |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 6:00 pm Re: When was the Straight Steel generally displaced by pedal
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| Ed Altrichter wrote: |
| After Bud Isaacs introduced the pedal steel guitar sound to country music circa 1952, in about what year would it have become more likely to hear pedal steel guitar being played by live bands in public venues like honky-tonks and beer joints throughout the nation ? |
This makes it clear the initial post was about country steel in mainland U.S., not Hawaiian steel in the islands and the U.K. Let's try to answer the question. After hearing Don Helms with Hank Williams on the radio as a child, I was listening to rockabilly and rock'n'roll in the '50s. By the time I listened to country again in the late '60s, it was all pedal steel.
Mostly from reading about the history here on the Forum, I understand most steelers were trying to switch to pedal steel as soon as Bud Isaac's backed Web Pierce on the monster hit "Slowly" (1952?). But Bigsbys were almost impossible to get, even for Web's subsequent steelers. Many steelers added homemade pedals to Stringmasters and other straight steels. I didn't realize Fender started making pedal steels so late (1958?). You can get some idea of the changeover by looking at recording dates on compilations of Ray Price, Web and other top country acts. But the question posed is about the average steeler in honky-tonks and bars. We need some of the old timers from the South and Midwest to tell us how and when the changeover occurred in the tonks. |
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John Drury
From:
Gallatin, Tn USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 6:09 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| You're assuming that the steel guitar is the sole property of Country Music. I don't see Hawaiian musicians jumping to the pedal steel. In a hundred years they'll still be using non-pedal. |
Alan,
Don't you mean a straight steel? LMAO!
There are new names being made up daily for these things.
I guess I like straight steel better than lap steel though. The term lap steel really grinds my @$$ for some reason. Non pedal steel runs a close second. I would think it shoud be either a steel guitar or a pedal steel guitar.
Is my Dobro a lap steel too? Or is it a non-pedal Dobro? Afterall it doesn't have pedals on it like Paul Franklins does.
I guess maybe its just a straight Dobro?
If you use a black, or red Rajah bar does it become a Rajah Guitar? W/pedals a Pedal Raj? Too much!
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John Drury
NTSGA #3
"Practice cures most tone issues" ~ John Suhr |
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Marty Smith
From:
California
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 8:35 pm
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Its called 'Steel'.
The other is 'Pedal Steel' |
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Ray Langley
From:
Northern California, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 9:54 pm
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Yes, opinions run deep on nomemclature and semantics... In a private message to me, noted steel guitar author and teacher (Lorene Ruymar) said:
"Never call it lapsteel, or slide guitar, or dobro. Call it a steel guitar, the only correct name for the instrument."
Hmmm.... if it's played on a stand or table, should it be a "table-steel". 
Is there a FAQ somewhere on terminology? I read lots of posts in the archives, but I still don't know the difference between a solo and a "ride". I expect to learn the meaning of "split-slant" in the near future. Although, I do know the difference between a straight bar, forward slant, and reverse slant. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 10:14 pm
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--------------------------------------
When was the Straight Steel generally displaced by pedals
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it varies by state....... |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 12:06 am
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| Call it a steel guitar, the only correct name for the instrument. |
That works when you are talking with the average Joe and you are telling him what you play... steel guitar. That term covers lap steel, pedal steel, etc. Any additional description is confusing to most people. But simply saying "steel guitar" is not enough when talking with other steel players. We need to clarify what kind of steel guitar we're talking about (pedals or no pedals). The very name of this section of the Forum "Steel Without Pedals" proves that! 
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Ray Langley
From:
Northern California, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 12:48 am
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Doug, I do not disagree with that in any way! I was just posting a statement from someone who learned the instrument many decades ago (from Jerry Byrd). I use the term lap steel because it is a steel guitar and I do play in in my lap. Sometimes old habits die hard. I also do not have any problem with that....
I was taught to respect my elders, but each year there seems to be fewer of them around.  |
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Ray Langley
From:
Northern California, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 12:56 am
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To add to the confusion, for the longest while I did not click on the topic: Sticky: What Happened to "No Peddlers"? Why? Because I thought it had to do with folks who were selling stuff. It created an image of the carpetbaggers coming to the South after the Civil War. Peddlers = cyclists or salesman.....
Then, the light bulb finally came on! |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 1:11 am
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I got this stuff here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_steel_guitar
The Gibson Guitar Corporation used a system of pedals to change the tuning of the strings on one of their console steels beginning in 1940. This instrument, the Electraharp, had a cluster of pedals radiating from its left rear leg that operated similarly to the pedals on a harp. Alvino Rey was an early player of the Electraharp.
In about 1950, Paul Bigsby began making custom pedal steel guitars that featured pedals mounted to a rack between the front legs of the instrument. Speedy West got the second of Bigsby's creations, and used it extensively in his work with Jimmy Bryant. Zane Beck began adding knee levers to console steel guitars, and in 1953, added a set of four knee levers to Jimmy Day's console steel. Beck's knee levers lowered the pitches of the strings they operated, which was an action opposite of what the pedals accomplished.
Around 1953, a console steel player named Bud Isaacs attached a pedal to one of the necks of his guitar. The function of the pedal was to change the pitch of two of the strings, whereby Isaacs would have two of the most common steel guitar tunings available on one neck. When he used this pedal to change his tuning while sustaining a chord during the recording of Webb Pierce's hit "Slowly," he touched off a revolution among steel guitarists.
The steel guitar seems to have an unusually high number of mechanically inclined players, and a period of extensive tinkering followed Isaac's initial idea. Two of these tinkering musicians were Buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day, and their playing and mechanical innovations alike have done more for the development of the pedal steel guitar than any other contributors.
Emmons and Day split the function of Isaac's pedal into two separate pedals and added two strings to fill in the gaps in the E9 tuning, bringing the number of strings to ten. Although Emmons' and Day's setups do the same thing, Emmons and Day used the opposite of each other's pedals to raise the strings. To this day, when one buys a pedal steel, the manufacturer will ask whether the player wants an Emmons Setup or a Day Setup. Emmons incorporated a third pedal to his setup, based on a change Ralph Mooney had used on his instrument.
Emmons joined forces in 1957 with another steel-playing machinist named Harold "Shot" Jackson and formed the Sho-Bud company, the first pedal steel guitar manufacturer. Sho-Bud guitars incorporated all the innovations that had taken place during the 1950s, including Emmons's third pedal, Beck's knee levers, and ten strings. The single-neck pedal steel guitar was now standardized with three pedals and (up to) four knee levers.
Both lap and pedal steel guitars were closely associated with the development of country music and western swing. The pedal steel's liquid, yearning sound has begun in recent years to be coveted by many modern musicians, beginning in jazz and blues. In particular the rising popularity of alternative country has brought the instrument's beautiful sound to a much wider audience, and it has been used in many different musical genres. Jรนjรบ music, a form from Nigeria, uses pedal steel extensively. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 9:37 am
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| Well, that's the background, but it doesn't really answer the question about when the run-of-the-mill country steelers in the clubs switched over. The pioneering period of moving-harmony pedal steel was from "Slowly" in 1953 to the first mass-produced pedal steels by Sho-Bud in 1957, Fender in 1958, and Emmons in 1960. During this pioneering period there were a small number of Bigsbys, and the rest were custom and homemade pedal steels and conversions of lap and console steels. I'm guessing this was a minority of barroom steelers in the day. The wholesale switchover would seem to have followed the introduction of the Sho-Buds and Fenders in the very late '50s. But I'm just reading between the lines. Only some old-timers who played the honky-tonks can give the real picture. |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 3:19 pm
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| A lot of steel players from the mid 40's up to the Bud Issac revolution had pedal steels mainly to expand 6th and 13th tunings with full Augmented, diminished, major-7th etc. chords while still playing the old Western Swing Style. Some examples here on the West Coast were, Speedy West, Vance Terry, Bobby Black & Peewee Whitewing. Most of Paul Bigsby's early steels were built for this purpose. Little did any of us know back then what Steel Guitar style of playing was going to change into. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 6:21 pm
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| Quote: |
| A lot of steel players from the mid 40's up to the Bud Issac revolution had pedal steels mainly to expand 6th and 13th tunings with full Augmented, diminished, major-7th etc. chords while still playing the old Western Swing Style. |
That's true. Early pedal steels were seen as "tuning changers" to allow for extended chords. The pedals were not for playing licks and string bends, as they are today. When Buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day split Bud Isaacs pedal (which raised two strings) into Two pedals (A & B)... that allowed for more single note string bending and the style of steel playing eventually changed. Players were able to bend up to the 3rd of the chords, and twang was born!
Fender continued to put "swing tunings" and "swing pedal changes" on their pedal steels into the 1960s. Factory tunings were A6 and C6, according to the owners manuals I have. And the Fender pedals were setup for "swing style" chordal playing, in my opinion. I once restored the original factory tunings and pedal setup on a Fender 1000, D-8, as shown in the owners manual. When I played the guitar I quickly realized that the tuning/pedals were designed to make easy swing/jazz chord changes: diminished, augmented, 9th, 6th, chords. That's what the pedals did. There was NO country twang in either of the tunings. My point is... the Nashville twang E9 PSG with the split pedals probably was not the dominant sound in bar bands until the early-mid 1960s when MSA, Emmons, Sho-Bud and others started production.
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 11:04 pm
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Well, well, well. That Fender 1000 D8 PSG sounds interesting. I wonder if Herb Remington's copedant on his Sustainmaster PSG is similar to that original Fender A6. I'm definitely NOT a tinkerer. And that is one of the reasons I'm not playing pedals. But the dominance of the Nashville E9 sound is another (weight and money are some others).
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