Advice Needed On Getting Started With Lap Steel

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 5 Jan 2009 2:50 pm

I need advice on everything from what would be a good Lap Steel Guitar to buy, to where to get started with instructional material, to what Amps work best, to best place to find Tabs for C6 tuning.

The C6 tuning is the only thing I'm pretty sure I want to use with the Lap Steel. As far as buying a Lap Steel Guitar, the only thing I know for sure is I want a guitar that I can get warm/rich tone from. I'd rather go with humbucker(s) over single coil. There's a bunch of old lap steel guitars on ebay. I'm always hesitant to buy an old guitar because I don't want to pay for a guitar that may need work and have problems. If they are anything like the newer electric guitars vrs older ones, the new ones will be more trouble free and have better playability/electronics. The Asher Hawaiian Junior with two humbuckers looks interesting. I would think it would be more versatile. It's under $700 and that would be the most I'd want to pay for a guitar.

The two amps I own are a Fender Princeton Reverb Reissue and a Genz Benz Shenandoah Pro acoustic amp. Would either of these amps work well? I also have a Boss GT-10.

This leaves the instructional material and tabs. Videos are always easier for me to learn and tabs books with a CD are easier if I can hear how it's supposed to sound.

Any suggestions and advice is greatly appreciated.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 5 Jan 2009 2:58 pm

I've got a page full of 6 string C6 tab with sound files for all riffs and songs HERE!. If you browse my site you will also find a page of 12 string C6th tabs and a review of a few 6 and 12 string lap steels.

Hope some of this is useful to you!

Greg

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 5 Jan 2009 3:30 pm

Greg Cutshaw wrote:I've got a page full of 6 string C6 tab with sound files for all riffs and songs HERE!. If you browse my site you will also find a page of 12 string C6th tabs and a review of a few 6 and 12 string lap steels.

Hope some of this is useful to you!

Greg

Greg, Thanks for the reply. That's a great website you have. The Rondo sounds really good. It's warm sounding. Doesn't it have a single coil?

I play Squareneck dobro a little, I'm use to a Tipton Chrome Bar. Can I use this bar for Lap Steel, or should I use a round bullet bar?

Josh Cho · Post by **Josh Cho** » 5 Jan 2009 4:31 pm

Denny,

Hey I just sent you a detailed message through your email about your first guitar, tunings, your amp and more. Check it out, I hope it helps.

Josh

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 5 Jan 2009 4:36 pm

Dennis,

You will get a lot of opinions on this! I view the Rondo as a great starter lap steel or maybe good to use as a second instrument for a PSG or guitar gig. Mine was a blast to play and it's a super value considering the price. I loved mine to death. However the tone is not the best if you're serious about playing a lot of lap steel. It can be pretty harsh as you get into the upper frets. Changing the pickup, nut and bridge can help this.

Just about any pro lap steel I've heard sounds better than the Rondo SX and that includes all the frypans and most of the used vintage steels for sale from various sources.

You'll have to decide what style you want to play and what tuning(s) and how many strings you need to do that. I went from the 6 string Rondo to the 12 string MSA SuperSlide. I've found however that I enjoy playing the 8 string C6th tuning with a high G and low C and C# the best. It just gives you more chords than the 6 string and allows for easier behind the bar bends without having the strings too close together.

You should ask a lot of questions and decide ahead of time what guitar and tuning suits you.

On the other hand, buying a Rondo SX and reselling it at no loss is never a bad decision to start with as long as you realize you will eventually want a much better instrument as you get more advanced in your playing.

A 7/8" or 15/16" diameter bar gives me better sustain than the dobro type bars so you might want to try one for yourself to hear the difference.

Greg

Bill Nedela · Post by **Bill Nedela** » 5 Jan 2009 7:29 pm

Excuse me for buttin' in...

As another "newbie", let me say thanks to you Dennis for the post. And thanks to you Greg for the link. I got on your site. Great stuff!

willy

Paul Kemper · Post by **Paul Kemper** » 5 Jan 2009 8:21 pm

Dennis,

After a very, very long hiatus from playing lap steel, I bought a Chandler Studio 6 and C6 tuning materials about 5 months ago. I'm very happy with the Chandler guitar but already wish I had bought the 8 string version. Also, I have switched tunings to open E and E7 as I find it better for the type of music I play, mostly old country.

Welcome to the forum and best of luck.

Paul

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 5 Jan 2009 8:40 pm

Dennis Burling wrote:I play Squareneck dobro a little, I'm use to a Tipton Chrome Bar. Can I use this bar for Lap Steel, or should I use a round bullet bar?

You can use the Tipton--it's a good weight and should sound fine. If you get to the point where you want to do split slants you'll find it is easier with a bullet bar. The bullet bars have other advantages, but it depends on what you like and how you play.

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 6 Jan 2009 5:47 am

As far as what guitar to go with, what's your opinion on George Boards? There is an all maple guitar he has for $899. What's the best wood for a Lap Steel?

This brings me to another question. Should I go with a six string or eight string. How much instructional material and tabs are out there for an eight string?

The Asher Hawaiian Junior is only a six string and sells for $675 with two Humbuckers. I don't know what pickup is in the George Board.

I won't be using any overdrive at all. I like clean sound. So I don't know which would be better.

Thanks, Denny

Ray Shakeshaft · Post by **Ray Shakeshaft** » 6 Jan 2009 6:30 am

I don't know what pickup is in the George Board.

I think that you will find that all the George Boards LSs have Jason Lollar pickups - well mine has. (It is a very nice imstrument, I just wish I could do it justice).

I am certainly no expert but I think the jury is still out on what is the best wood for a LS. I have been watching these BBs for sometime for the answer to that one.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 6 Jan 2009 8:38 am

There really is no "best" wood for a lap steel, just different. And within a single wood type, like maple for example, you can have one piece that is ice pick bright and another from the same stack that is warmer.
Mahogany is another wood that can vary a lot, anywhere from heavy, dark, and muddy to sweet, light, crisp, and airy.
When I'm down at the hardwood dealer, I can go through hundreds of board ft of wood before I find the stock I'm looking for.

the only thing I know for sure is I want a guitar that I can get warm/rich tone from

A mahogany or mahogany / maple based guitar would probably fit that bill best, something like this Deco model I build

.
8 string
.

6 string
.

Ray Shakeshaft · Post by **Ray Shakeshaft** » 6 Jan 2009 9:21 am

Those are works of art Tom. If the dollar/pound rate becomes sensible again...............

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 6 Jan 2009 10:52 am

Dennis, go for an 8 string steel. You don't have to use all 8 strings, but if/when you wish to, they will be available.
Many people have made their careers, fame, and fortunes with only 6, but I'd be bummed to have only 6 again.

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 7 Jan 2009 6:55 am

Well, I did it! I have a new Tear Drop Six String Lap Steel coming from Tom Pettingill.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 55ef9f2dec
Tom has been great answering my questions and sending sound clips. I think this guitar is drop dead gorgeous. The sound clips sound wonderful also. After listening to different sound clips, I've decided to go with a hand wound Humbucker Tom has.

Now I need to get started with instructional material. I was pretty set on C6, but I've read a lot of folks like Open "E" tuning. Is one of these tunings easier to play than the other? Which tuning has the richer overall tone?

Thanks, Denny

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 7 Jan 2009 9:25 am

I think you'll find a ton more material for C6 than open E tuning.

Chris Drew · Post by **Chris Drew** » 7 Jan 2009 10:06 am

Dennis Burling wrote:I was pretty set on C6, but I've read a lot of folks like Open "E" tuning. Is one of these tunings easier to play than the other? Which tuning has the richer overall tone?

Thanks, Denny

Andy's right, you won't find anywhere near as much instructional material for open E as you will for C6...

A real shame!

Open E ( or open D, which is the same "shape" ) is a great tuning!
It seems better suited to playing "unaccompanied" styles so it's often the preferred tuning for acoustic steel guitar.

It spans a full 2 octaves & an open-string-strum gets you a full major chord.
The richness is down to the wide & "easy" intervals between the strings (root,fifth,root,third,fifth,root - low to high) which makes it such a cool tuning for blues/rock licks, country-blues and non-genre-specific self-accompanied styles like rags with constant alternating bassline.

The intervals also mean that it's perhaps less suited to single-note runs & playing in a certain style to fit into & around a band situation, providing more varied chordal playing & "fills" for example. For this style of playing a 6th or alternative tuning not based on an open chord would be advisable.

In answer to your questions, neither tuning is "easier" but each is more suited to different styles of playing.
Perhaps it's easier to sound bad or good in either type of tuning, but for different reasons.

With open E/D tuning, because of the extended range you have access to more notes but they can be trickier to get to because they're further away from each other.
With a 6th tuning you have less notes to choose from so they're quicker/easier to find.

I think that the predominance of material available for C6th tuning is down to the greater popularity of Steel Guitar played in a band situation which that style of tuning is more suited to.

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 7 Jan 2009 10:24 am

Chris, The lack of Open "D" material is causing me to step back from my idea purchasing a Weissenborn Style guitar. I love the acoustic tone of a Weissenborn, but I think they sound their best in open "D" tuning. The lack of instructional material and tabs for open "D" is a real bummer. This is strictly a hobby for me and I play guitar to amuse myself only. I'm a below average player and need Tabs and sound files to be able to learn. The fact that I can find so much material out there for the Lap Steel in C6 tuning makes the decision to go this way a no brainer for me. This coupled with using a lot of double stops in C6, makes it easier for me to play. I'm amazed how rich and full the sound of a Lap Steel is with C6 and simple double stops.

Is it easy to find backing tracks for songs to use with C6?

Thanks, Denny

Chris Drew · Post by **Chris Drew** » 8 Jan 2009 12:06 am

Hey Dennis, hollowneck.com is hopefully going to redress the balance a little.
It's early days for the site right now, but it'll be added to as time goes on...

Maybe try a Weissy in C6, you may be surprised!

Ray Langley · Post by **Ray Langley** » 8 Jan 2009 2:27 am

Denny, you asked about backing tracks. Here is a group of midi backing tracks that John Nickless created for his own steel guitar playing:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Trail/7193/page1.htm

There are several sections for Country, Hawaiian, and Gospel.

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 8 Jan 2009 6:25 am

Chris Drew wrote:Hey Dennis, hollowneck.com is hopefully going to redress the balance a little.
It's early days for the site right now, but it'll be added to as time goes on...

Maybe try a Weissy in C6, you may be surprised!

Really? I thought a Weissy couldn't take the string tension of C6.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 8 Jan 2009 7:11 am

Dennis,

I've got about 100 backing tracks on my web site. Thay are all played with real bass and rhythm guitar and other instruments. They include many of the clasic steel guitar songs, tons of country, some early rock and some original tunes. They are all listed with the tabs on my tab pages. If you want to check on one without going through all the pages, just use Google with the search field "www.gregcutshaw.com song name".

Greg

Roger Palmer · Post by **Roger Palmer** » 8 Jan 2009 7:17 am

Dennis Burling wrote:
Really? I thought a Weissy couldn't take the string tension of C6.

There is no extra tension for C6 providing you use the correct string guages

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 8 Jan 2009 7:46 am

Roger Palmer wrote:
Dennis Burling wrote:
Really? I thought a Weissy couldn't take the string tension of C6.
There is no extra tension for C6 providing you use the correct string guages

What would be safe string set for C6 with a Weissenborn Style guitar?

I had tried a set of lighter gauge strings on a Weissenborn I was trying. the first string was a .013. It made the guitar sound very thin and the strings felt like spaghetti. But that may be the Open "D" I tuned it to.

Chris Drew · Post by **Chris Drew** » 8 Jan 2009 9:17 am

There's a string-gauge chart here, err on the lighter side to account for the longer scale of a Weissenborn-style guitar.

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 20 Jan 2009 9:00 pm

Just wanted to get back and say thanks for everyone's help. I have my Pettingill Teardrop, Tribo-Tone Bar and Instructional C6 tuning material from George Boards. I hit the ground running and I'm having a blast. It didn't take much time at all to adjust to the bullet bar over the Tipton Dobro bar. I tried the Tipton on the Lap Steel and I can see why just about everyone uses a bullet bar. My biggest adjustment so far is blocking with my right hand instead of my bar hand which I'm use to with the dobro. But I'm slowly getting the hang of it.

Thanks again, Denny