The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm going to look into getting my first PSG when the economy gets better. It will be my third instrument after six string guitar and banjo, and I know enough theory to play some jazz.

I don't know know if I should learn E9 or C6 tuning first or both. I like both 60s country rock and 40s western swing, and other styles as well, so I'm thinking I need a double-neck and want to learn both tunings concurrently.

The learning curve won't be nearly as steep for me as a newbie to music but is it recommended to learn both at first? I don't want to buy a single neck and then want to upgrade a year later.

I learned (and am still learning) both tunings at the same time. You'll never learn it all...the old idea of "I'll learn E9 first and then tackle C6" is a fallacy, IMO. jc

Get a D10 and double the fun!!

I started out on a Sho-Bud Professional years and years ago.Can't even remember how long ago but it is a very long time.
Like Jussi said before me.Get a D-10 if you can.

World of fun.

Ron

The only drawback of a D-10 might be the weight. My first psg was a D-10 Sho-Bud, at around 85 lbs in the case. So when I got a second psg, I kept the Sho-Bud and got an extended E9 Excel which weighs more like 45 lbs. Much nicer to carry around. Luckily, a lot of the new steels are lighter than the old ones, so there's a lot of choices out there. Just don't forget to consider weight when you pick one out. But definitely get a D-10 for your first steel if you can. I think it gives you a more complete understanding of the instrument, it's more fun, and you can get the cool low notes on the C6 neck even if you never really learn how to play it right

I'd seriously consider getting a nice lightweight single neck IF YOU THINK YOU CAN LIVE WITH THE ONE TUNING - or a 12 string uni, which will give you both.

There are some number of people playing a 10 string universal tuning.

Myself - and I know I am in the minority - do not understand people lugging around big ole double necks and double body single necks.

I started out with a single body single neck, and thats the way I will stay. I've got 10 strings, 3 pedals and 4 knees, and thats enough for me.

Of course buy the best and most Steel guitar you can for your money, but there is another consideration. As a beginner there are fundamental things you learn for each tuning and it would be my opinion , should you buy a D10, to study one tuning or the other for the first 6 months , not to co-study both tunings at the same time. Get a reference started on one neck such as E9 and apply what you have learned after the 1st 6 months over to the C6.

If money is a consideration, as it is for all of us, get the best single 10 E9th Guitar you can for you money and start there. You will have enough to keep you busy for a very long time. This is probably what the majority of players have done.

tp

Stephanie,

When you said in your post that you know enough theory to play some jazz and mentioned that you like 40's Western Swing, I immediately thought that you will probably appreciate the C6th neck better than the E9th neck.

A common term among some steelers is that the E9th neck is "The money neck". If that's the case, the C6th neck is "the fun neck"

I think you should have (and learn to play) a C6th neck. For me, the C6th neck is easier to learn than the E9th neck. Plus, you get those big fat juicy jazz chords and it makes a lot of sense "music theory-wise" for jazz.

I have to be much more precise and accurate when picking the E9th neck. That's why I just love it when Jeff Newman says (in his instruction videos)... "Go ahead now and just grab yourself a big ol' handful of strings on that C6 neck" Since you already play banjo, picking probably won't give you any problems!

Yeah, I found a big ol ShoBud Baldwin Crossover that had 3 pedals on the E9th & 3 on Cth, needless to say, the crossover part had long crossed over on that ol axe, but thats how I started, then bought a real nice MSA Classic D-10, learned a lot on that one, then switched to S-12 Universals & that worked real good for me, just played B6th instead of C6th. Most folks can learn a lot with a doubleneck & see the necks separated like that helps in the beginning. Good luck & keep on pickin

Ernie Pollock
http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

It never crossed my mind to get anything other than a D-10. That's what all my heroes played. Unless you're a session player just doing commercial country I don't see any reason to limit yourself to the E9th tuning. As far as the learning curve goes, I'd think it would be much steeper if you tackled C6th at some point in the future; you'd always feel like you were behind.

You'll also be more employable with a D-10. Like when the singer calls "Night Life". Yeah, you can play that and other C6th-sounding stuff on E9th, but it really doesn't sound the same. Well, maybe a monster player could pull it off, but all the monster players I know play D-10's.

Stephanie Carta wrote:I'm going to look into getting my first PSG when the economy gets better. It will be my third instrument after six string guitar and banjo, and I know enough theory to play some jazz.

I don't know know if I should learn E9 or C6 tuning first or both. I like both 60s country rock and 40s western swing, and other styles as well, so I'm thinking I need a double-neck and want to learn both tunings concurrently.

The learning curve won't be nearly as steep for me as a newbie to music but is it recommended to learn both at first? I don't want to buy a single neck and then want to upgrade a year later.

Go for it---double neck. Your interest for C6th is already there, and that neck will just be waiting for you when you are ready to add it to your learning. I'd start on E9 and when you get a few basics, start doing a little on the C6th, too. Those basics transfer over--hand technique, foot technique, so start some C6th after you get some time on the E9. Pick up Jeff Newman's C6th workshop, it will give you a great introduction to the C6th neck.

I started on a double neck, however I am a native Texan. I didn't want to go back home for a visit and have to answere the question "Where is the other half of your guitar?"

I've been picking at the back neck ever since I started playing, really. My second steel was a D10, and several thereafter. I also had a Universal for a while, and learned Newman's course, which is essentially C6 back a half-tone. I also learned from Buddy Emmons' basic C6.

My gigging guitar is an SD10, because the set lists for my bands do not call for any C6 at all. I could slip some in there in places, but it's not necessary. Therefore, my Mullen RP SD10 fits the bill for gigs.

However, at home I have a D10 Sho~Bud Professional, and I play the C6 every time I sit down at it. I play mostly 5-6 pedals, doing bluesy changes and such. I love the Sho~Bud C6 going through my old Fender Twin. It sounds huge!!

Every now and then I have two steel gigs in one night. Therefore, the Sho~Bud gets to see some action. On those nights, I'll go back on C6 for tunes such as "Six-Pack To Go", "Matchbox", "Jack to a King", and a few others. If we're doing rock and roll in A, I'll start dropping that low C to A with the 8th pedal. It always gets the band's attention.

Jeremy Threlfall wrote:I'd seriously consider getting a nice lightweight single neck IF YOU THINK YOU CAN LIVE WITH THE ONE TUNING - or a 12 string uni, which will give you both.

There are some number of people playing a 10 string universal tuning.

the 12 string uni. Do look into it. Kline makes a nice one.

My first steel is a D-10 -- never regretted it. Didn't want anything to hold me back. Haven't tackled the C6 neck yet. That's my goal for the new year. (Did play around with a C6 lap steel for awhile though)

Your interest in jazz and western swing means you should definitely start with a D10 or an S12 E9/B6 Universal. If you find it too difficult to learn both tunings at once, you can always ignore one for awhile, but it will always be there when you are ready. There is nothing to prevent you from concentrating on one tuning mostly, but just dabbling with the other from time to time.

You are a good candidate for a 12-string Uni. It is like E9 on the top 10 strings, and with the flick of a knee lever (or a locking hand lever) it becomes B6 on the bottom 10 strings. And of course you get some extra strings in each mode. You can concentrate on each of the two modes separately, or you can take the one-big-tuning approach and learn them both integrated together. It is an extremely versatile instrument, and has the convenience of smaller size, less weight, less cost, and fewer strings to change.

If I knew then, what I know now? U-12, without question! I love my Kline!

D-10 All the way! Cause there's no way a bottom .036 or .038 E9 string is going to get you the same sound as what a bottom .068 or .072, C6 will, unless they were a Magician.

Single necks are for sissies, doublenecks are for dudes, and triplenecks are for the tuff ones, so get a Clinesmith Bigsby tripleneck!!

Just kiddin' of course

I suggest you go for a 12 Universal or extended
E9. Look up the article in the forum archives by Maurice Andersen " Steel Guitar, Back to the Future" before you spend big money. Glad you're asking questions A good decision is a 'well informed decision'... steel guitar is not easy and they don't come cheap! MD

My old (and heavy!) Marlen D10 in 1976 got me off to a good start. My current guitar is a Carter D10, noticeably lighter, but still has "tone to the bone" on both necks and is a generation better engineered in the mechanism. In my opinion, it's nice to have the option of E9th and C6th on separate necks.

If in doubt, opting for a D10 gives you a lot of options, and good resale if you decide a single-neck or a universal is better for you. The modern D10s are lighter than the vintage guitars and still sound as good and will be a lot more "maintainable"

Michael Dulin wrote:I suggest you go for a 12 Universal or extended
E9. Look up the article in the forum archives by Maurice Andersen " Steel Guitar, Back to the Future"

That's a great article and gives me a lot to think about.

Thanks guys.. I'm glad I'm not totally off in thinking a double neck might be a way to start.

When I play my banjo I use several different tunings, depending upon which I think would complement the song, and I like to mix it up. I'm thinking I'd approach PSG the same way.

Stephanie, the best thing to do, is do a lot of research, before buying anything. We all like what we play for the most part, and as such, all have varying opinions of what's the best.

I simply don't feel there are any best, other than in the eye of the beholder. Granted some are better than others (in different areas) and some worse than others in different areas.

Bottom line is, you have to be satisfied with whatever your choice might be. Many brands you'll pay top dollar for, that just may not be the best at all. Endorcement guitars, you'll pay lots more for, and it doesn't necessarily make them play any better at all, other than to put the price tag well above what they might otherwise be, without endorcements.

Something to think about too. Just do your homework good before buying.

Don

Stephanie, I started out on a singleneck steel, then moved on to a doubleneck.

Brett

Stephanie,
In my return to the world of PSG, I was looking at D10's until I read that article by Reece A. Bought a Carter U12.Newman copedant. Plays great, sounds great, 48 lbs. in case.
I had a couple of U12 guitars in my first go at steel, but didn't get too far into the 6th side... insufficient harmony & theory knowledge.Since then, I've learned a great deal... it's gonna be different this time around.
So welcome to the wonderful world of steel guitar.Warning! Highly addictive!
CR.