The Steel Guitar Forum

Lap steels have a fixed anchorage at both ends of the strings. Pedal steels, on the other hand, have springs in the path. The same question arises as to whether an electric guitar with a tremolo arm has different tone than one without.

Logic says that where both ends of the string are held firm, all the vibration is transmitted through the bridge. On the other hand, if one end of the string be connected to a spring, there should be two effects:-

[1] The springs should absorb some of the vibration, much like the supension on a car.

[2] The vibrations should make the spring expand and contract, introducing a slight tremolo effect whether the tremolo arm be depressed or not. Similarly on a pedal steel, there should be some effect, whether the pedal be depressed or not.

I'm planning on doing some experiments, building a lap steel where the strings are connected to springs.

Anyone have any input on the subject ?

Nothing ?

I don't pretend to know much about physics. It would seem that the all of the energy transmitted by the spring has got to go somewhere. I would assume part would travel down the axel into the body and back to the string. Any remaining energy would follow the path to the spring, vibrate down it and back up into either the body where the spring is attached or back up the string.

That said, reflected energy coming back to the string may be out of phase with the waves of the still vibrating string. Enery reflected to the body would probably mostly be returned to the string in any case because of the difference in mass.

Now I'm confused. Are there any engineers out there?

Well I'm no engineer either but my thought is that the string vibrates between the nut and the bridge, fixed as with the lapsteel or "rolling" on the pedal guitar. The springs are "outside" that area, but still must have some effect on the overall resonating "body" of the instrument that does effect tone....my $.02!

I'm planning on doing some experiments, building a lap steel where the strings are connected to springs.

Anyone have any input on the subject ?

Uhh, yeah. That sounds like a very bad idea.

Alan, Go ahead and experiment with springs and after you have completed the experiment, we can judge whether it was a good idea or not.

I think that the number of segments in a changer finger has a great deal more to do with the difference in tone between a lap and pedal steel, than the lower return spring.

Pedal steels with one-piece fingers (as in pull-release changers) seem to have a better tone than the modern day all-pull steels (in my humble opinion)

I agree that the way to know whether the spring coefficient of a PSG changer has an effect on "tone" (whatever that is) is to do an experiment. But if you want it to have meaning, it needs to be an experiment that simulates being a pedal steel guitar, not a lap steel with strings connected to springs, which would be very different.

So why not just compare the tone of a pedal steel with the changer "locked" somehow versus the tone of that same exact pedal steel set up normal. Now you have removed all other factors except the springiness, and can truly compare the differences. Go all out, hook up a spectrum analyzer or whatever you want.

I'll be surprised if there's a big difference, but maybe I'm wrong. People do this all the time on Strats - tremelo blocked vs. pinned to the top but still operational (dive-bomb-only mode) vs. various stages of floating. I do it routinely - I have found very little difference between outright blocked vs. tightly pinned to the top. As long as there are strong springs pulling the bridge tightly to the top with no wiggling, it eliminates most if not all of the tone suck. But when the tremelo is allowed to float freely by significantly loosening the springs, it generally makes a noticable change in the way the guitar reacts at a lot of levels. My sense is that a typical PSG has a much stiffer spring constant than a loosely floating Strat bridge - but I could be wrong.

The point that is often missed is that there are a lot of factors that affect the interchange of energy between strings and whatever they're connected to. It's a distributed-parameter system and analyzing its mechanics is pretty involved.

I changed springs on most of the lowers on my old Fender 400 (now owned by Steve Gambrell) and it had a noticable effect on tone - and this is the short-scale type with heavy "rocking" fingers. It brightened up the guitar a bit and added an "airy" resonance; it simply did not sound as "tight" (tight meaning constricted). The guitar really seemed to kind of open-up tonewise.

I've done the same thing on a long-scale Fender and it had the same effect, although not as noticeable. I've not messed with the springs on my GFI Ultra, although I've thought about it.

Jim Sliff wrote:I changed springs on most of the lowers on my old Fender 400...

Did you use weaker or stronger springs ?

Alan,

springs do change the sound.Not dramatically but it is noticeable for the human ear.
A stronger spring will give a brighter change then a weaker spring.The weaker spring might add a little bit of a muffled tone.
Some say that even chrome plated springs will add a better sound to your guitar as well.
A little far fetched if you'd ask me.

If you want to change your tone dramatically then I can send you a mail to make major improvements on your guitar.
Just say the word.

Ron

So-called Super Strats with Floyd Rose trems sound thin and wimply without a bunch of distortion in the signal chain, same as new all-pull guitars sound thin and wimpy compared to a push/pull Emmons or an old Bud with a ton of metal and maple.

Oops! Gotta go now... -L-

Send It Ron. Thanks. SONNY.

Alan - I went to weaker springs, and a mix of types depending on the particular string being lowered. It had a huge effect on the feel, really lightening the pedals up and made for a more modern "action" on the pedals. On some raises I also added helper springs, which worked fine but I removed them as they weren't really that necessary. The ones on the lowers make a big difference, though.

That seems to suggest that springs DO muffle the natural vibrations of the strings, which is what I suspect.