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Topic: A couple newbie thoughts on expanding Lap Steel popularity |
Judson Bertoch
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 19 Aug 2008 9:23 am |
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I've read some of these older discussions, via search, relating to the future of the intrument and wanted to post a couple of things:
I does seem very 3x niche to the outsider.
-Evangelical music
-Older country music
-Hawaiian
(regardless of the different tunings, though I understand some are better suited to particular styles)
Tell me if I'm flat on wrong on this:
Wouldn't some fertile ground to grow interest in the instrument lie with expanding into:
- R&B stuff like "When a Man Loves a Woman, "Stand By Me", and many others. They have great great vocal melody that seem to be matches for Lap.
-Ditto some modern pop/country like the Dixie Chicks
-Early electric blues like Muddy and Elmore.
-Though arguably tired, in the classic rock genre, stuff like "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd and "Melissa" by the Allman Bros could really be made to sing on Lap.
What do you think? How come this stuff doesn't get made into DVD tutorials? Whole new audience. Heck, I'd even think about underwriting the $$$ if someone would produce the above series.
And: aging baby boomers. Like me. I really screwed up my elbows last year on a 3 week long home landscaping project. Ended up getting the most help with Trigger Point Therapy/deep tissue release. I learned the over 40% of muscians play in pain. For me cranking that fretting wrist around is less and less fun.
Lap seems to have a more natural position.
Thoughts: good/bad/never happen?
Thanks guys/gals! |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 19 Aug 2008 10:31 am
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I can only speak for myself but I don't limit myself by genre, if there's a song I like or in my head I'll translate it to lap steel. I'm rooted in Rock and blues but I play jazz, big band, country, etc, etc.
As far as making the lap steel more popular... maybe we could take a lesson from the olympics and get some women in skimpy outfits to play 'em 
Take a listen to some of Steve Cunningham's stuff. I think it's guys like him that will carry the instrument into the future and expand the usage.
Just my .02
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 19 Aug 2008 12:57 pm Re: A couple newbie thoughts on expanding Lap Steel populari
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Thanks for posting your thoughts. Overall, I agree with your assessment, however, instruments like lap steel carry traditions with them. It's very easy to assume that someone who takes up lap steel is interested in western swing or hawaiian music. Of course that's not always the case.
It seems, though, that the core skills were developed and are perhaps best represented in those styles of music, so the idea is to start there and expand outward. And there are cd/dvd course materials on rock & blues on lap steel.
I also believe that newbie's quickly develop an interest in where the instrument came from, whether they pursue those traditions or not. Personally, I wanted to play lap steel because of David Lindley's work with Jackson Browne. After investigating the instrument, I discovered western swing, hawaiian, country... I found out how big the world of steel guitar is. I play mainly pop/rock on lap steel, but the strength of the traditions of lap steel opened up a world of music that I can appreciate, even if I don't play it.
Depending on the musician, your niche theory could acutally be reversed. I mean, if you start steeped in western swing, then maybe you'll not venture far out, but if you start in rock, as I did, my musical insterests were greatly expanded by those strong traditions. |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 19 Aug 2008 3:10 pm
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Judson,
We've discussed a range of modern steel guitar playing recently, from Steve Cunningham to Slo-Mo to The Last Town Chorus. The popularity of steel guitar keeps expanding no matter what we do.
I think the reason the three genres you mention get discussed more often here are because of the general age of the steel players contributing to the discussions, and their natural interests in those genres. We have a wide and diverse group of players here.
I agree that a series of lessons based on music other than the three types you mention would probably do well. I'm really surprised nobody's done a David Lindley style (or Ben Harper style, or a Jeff Lang style) lap steel tutorial before now.
Pete Grant has been working on a series of resonator guitar versions of Beatles songs, but I don't know where he is on that.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 19 Aug 2008 9:50 pm
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I generally agree with you on the 3 styles of music most common to the Lap Steel (non-pedal) But I chose to play the instrument more frequently, because the sound of my Pedal Steel was so strongly linked to Country Music.
I have more opportunity to play with rock, blues and alternative groups with the lap steel, than with the Pedal. Somewhat because of my own personal style limitations. (I play mostly Country style E9 licks on the Pedal guitar) But I tend to play more edgy, gritty and rock out more with the non-pedal.
Most musician's instantly related to David Linleys sound, and or other (slide) guitarists.
I know the Pedal Steel can be used for all of the above, but to me there is a tonal difference, and a feel when playin lap that lends itself more to rock/blues.
JMO
Dom |
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Richard Shatz
From:
St. Louis
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 2:56 pm
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| Muddy Waters 40s and early 50s slide stuff, while not played on lap steel just falls off the strings in D, E or F. Elmore James, too. |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 5:05 pm
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| I have always played all styles of music from jazz to prog rock to world music to tango to flamenco to middle eastern (and lots more..) as a guitar player.. that hasn't stopped as a steel player. |
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Doug Freeman
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 6:12 pm
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| Why are we worried about the popularity of lap steel? Lap steelers need to get over it and celebrate their relative unusualness. Every kid and his aunt plays regular guitar nowadays. You want that to happen to steel? After decades of playing guitar I've been working on lap steel for just over two months, and having a ball taking my Chinese Weissenborn knockoff to parties and jam sessions and playing an instrument nobody else there has. People are stoked to hear a new sound and don't even seem to notice that I barely know what I'm doing on it! I should point out that I'm playing strictly in C6, so they're also getting a way different palette than if it were an open D bottleneck vibe, which they've also heard plenty of by now. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 6:43 pm
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| Quote: |
-Ditto some modern pop/country like the Dixie Chicks
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Judson: Emily Robison plays what appears to be a National lap steel in the video for "Voice Inside My Head" from the Dixie Chicks most recent album. She played this National on stage on their last tour (along with her Scheerhorn reso and several other instruments). On that tour, Forumite Pete Finney was on pedal steel and dobro as well.
I was at the show in Oakland, November 2006, and Emily was perched on a stool playing the National on this song. Here is the AOL Sessions video link:
http://tinyurl.com/5dncxy
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Mark |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 7:57 pm
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| Quote: |
| Every kid and his aunt plays regular guitar nowadays. |
Absolutely right! The plumber and the mailman, too. Keep after that C6 steel Doug. Welcome to the group. 
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Judson Bertoch
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 5:51 am
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Doug and Ed,
Yep, good points. I guess I'm bemoaning the lack of material I'm interested in playing - but that's mostly because I'm not able (yet) to apply the theory to transpose songs to C6. But post coming up on that topic!
Exactly on target about the sheer number of people who play guitar nowdays. I was looking to play something different, something that sounds different, something not so left arm intensive. Plus, I think Lap is just flat out cool. |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 6:33 am
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| Doug Freeman wrote: |
| Why are we worried about the popularity of lap steel?... |
In my case I've never had trouble getting work as a guitar player and I get invites to jam or to sit in at a gig or whatever on a regular basis. Not so with the lap steel. Since I've officially changed my focus to lap steel I have yet to tap into any musicians that have any real interest in using a lap steel player. In the past I've broken it out for a song or two but as a full time instument it's a different story.
That said I'd like to see the instrument used on a more univeersl level to make it more recognizable and to help other musicians and people in general understand it better. It can be fun to have people wonder what the odd little guitar is that you're playing but the novelty wore off for me and now I just want to PLAY IT.
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 6:42 am
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| Judson Bertoch wrote: |
I guess I'm bemoaning the lack of material I'm interested in playing - but that's mostly because I'm not able (yet) to apply the theory to transpose songs to C6. But post coming up on that topic!
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Definitely keep working on C6, it's a great tuning, and useful beyond hawaiian/western swing. That being said, it's nice to have some lower tones for rock/blues. Consider stringing/tuning down to G6 or A6, if you want to preserve the straight-bar full minor triads. Then again, plow into good ol' open G, A, E, or D and the guitar starts playing itself in rock/blues. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 10:14 am
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C6th seems to still be the best all-around tuning, with A6th being the same layout with an E on top. Good tuning if the high G is too tinny for ya on a C6th layout.
Playing pop music from the 40s and 50s (before the rock stuff) works well on C6th as well as old standards. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 11:17 am
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I mostly play country because that's what I like and enjoy. Just like bluegrass and classical and jazz music, there's nothing wrong with playing the standards if that's what you enjoy.
I agree that the instrument has more potential than what I am able to do with it but I think it needs more than just new sounds. It need's a new image and newer players. Since the lap steel can be more mobile than a pedal steel, you can put on more of a stage show with it just like the guitar players do. If a new and talented player was touring the country and hitting all the music stores like Scotty and Maurice Anderson did with the pedal steel, a lot more people would be seeing and hearing it and many of these people would have non-traditional music backgrounds. It is amazing how versatile a simple 6 string lap steel can be in the right hands.
Greg |
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Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 7:50 pm
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I don't play jazz worth a **** on pedal steel- but I can bop away for hours with my friend Max Groove's serious funk-jazz band on Coltrane tunes and the like on a lapsteel! Seems well-suited to funk jazz and blues...
_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 23 Aug 2008 10:27 am
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Here's another take on it...
I think another reason that lap steel is not as common as the guitar, is the fact that you can't easily strum a rythym on it *(yeah some limited chord changes are possible. But it is not a singer/songwriter/solo type instrument.
I have tried to do this with a resonator (open major chords are okay) but the complicated strum paterns and, groove are not there.
This is why the standard guitar is so popular. A single guitarist can carry the rythym, provide nice harmonic counterpoint, ascending bass lines and sing with it and the sound is full.
Now don't get me wrong. I love the steel the most, but because of these limitations, we usually need another instrument to play backup.
JMO
Dom  |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Aug 2008 12:10 pm
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| i play gypsy jazz rhythm on my tricone as accompaniment. it's totally a rhythm instrument. we've just gotta break out of the self imposed stylistic box |
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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Posted 23 Aug 2008 1:22 pm
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I got into lap steel as a way to add some textures to our progressive bluegrass band (I play banjo). When the guitar player and I decided to go mostly electric, we built the instrumental sound of the band around the steel.
I play steel on about 60-70% of our songs, banjo on the rest. Mostly, our guitar player uses electric, but breaks out the acoustic for a few songs. But this means I'm playing a lot of rhythm guitar on the steel. Not always a great thing, but we've turned the limitations into a style... such as it is.
Lindley got me into the sound of the steel, and I love that there are players as diverse as Kaki King and Freddy Roulette, the Sacred Steelers and Steinar ripping it up out there.
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Peter
---------
www.splinterville.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@splinterville6278/videos |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2008 1:33 pm Have you folks played Bean Blossom yet? ; -]
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| Peter Jacobs wrote: |
| I got into lap steel as a way to add some textures to our progressive bluegrass band (I play banjo). When the guitar player and I decided to go mostly electric, we built the instrumental sound of the band around the steel. |
Peter,
Great stuff (the vids and mp3s)!
I can hardly get into a jam session! But then, my banjo has a second (low) drone "G" (that I sometimes tune up to "B" for some dobro licks). I also have a 3rd finger pick on my right ring finger so I play 4 - finger style! ; -}
Seriously, I really like what you've done! Have you played for a mostly "BG", or acoustically oriented, audience? What sort of feedback are you folks receiving regarding your musical approach?
Thanks,
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2008 4:00 pm Amen, Brother Kinbom!!!!
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| Fred Kinbom wrote: |
| Dom Franco wrote: |
| But it is not a singer/songwriter/solo type instrument. |
I respectfully disagree. I think you can do a lot solo on a lap steel in a "singer/songwriter" context.
Along the lines of what AJ stated above - the lap steel is what we make of it!
Fred |
Hey Fred,
I concur 100%! And your performance is right there with it, Pardner. Not only that...
What that accent of yours (not to mention what looks like a 5 O'Clock shadow) you'd be fight'em off with a stick over here!!! ; -]
Seriously, I really liked that performance. Do you have others?
Thanks,
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 23 Aug 2008 7:14 pm Re: Amen, Brother Kinbom!!!!
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| Johnne Lee Ables wrote: |
Hey Fred,
I concur 100%! And your performance is right there with it, Pardner. Not only that...
What that accent of yours (not to mention what looks like a 5 O'Clock shadow) you'd be fight'em off with a stick over here!!! ; -]
Seriously, I really liked that performance. Do you have others?
Thanks,
Johnne Lee |
Thanks Johnne Lee! And my accent is Swedish. Yep - I've got more tunes in the myspace and youtube links in my signature (and an album in the making).
Fred
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www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2008 7:55 am Re: Amen, Brother Kinbom!!!!
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| Fred Kinbom wrote: |
Thanks Johnne Lee! And my accent is Swedish. Yep - I've got more tunes in the myspace and youtube links in my signature (and an album in the making).
Fred |
Thanks for the links, Fred! I'll definitely be checking them out!
JL
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 24 Aug 2008 1:02 pm
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Kelly Joe Phelps or Harry Manx might take exception to the idea that lap guitar isn't a solo instrument as well. I can't do that stuff, mind you- but it has opened doors to watch Kelly do it on the instructional videos. I tried starting on C6 and ended up being, like Lindley, an open tuning fanatic. I still play around with the 6ths but for 6 string an open D or E gets me there.
Last edited by Keith Cordell on 24 Aug 2008 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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