G# minor Chord

Brian Henry · Posted 27 Jul 2008 8:18 am

In the key of B what are some of the ways to get a G# minor chord. Thank you
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Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

The A pedal.

Chuck Thompson · From: Illinois, USA

hiya tb - the 3 easiest are 2nd fret ab pedals - strings 5,6,7 and 7th fret a pedal - strings 5,6,8 and fret 0 or 12, e's lowered strings 10,8,6,5,4,3

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

2nd fret, A&C pedals strings 3,4,5,6,7 and strings 1 and 10 can be used too. Also when using the A pedal at 7th fret, strings 3,4,5,6,8,10 all work.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

I think of ways to get a minor chord in E9th tuning like this:
-Up 3 frets from open chord with A pedal engaged
-Up one fret from AB (aka "Pedals")position with no pedals but D lever (E's lowered) engaged
-Down 2 frets from open position (or up 3 from AB Pedals position)with either BC pedals on top 2 inversions or with AB but include 1st or 7th string instead of 4th or 8th string
-At the AB (Pedals) position 1/2 pedaling the A pedal and fully engaging the B pedal

Brian Henry · Posted 27 Jul 2008 11:36 am

Thank you all so much. This forum is just the greatest place to get info on pedal steel;. Thank you!!!
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Kyle Everson · From: Nashville, Tennessee

An often overlooked position is two frets lower than the AB pedals position while lowering your second string a half a tone. G# minor would be at the 9th fret on strings 1,2,5,7,9,10.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

E lever* (E to Eb). Gives G# minor, which is of course the relative minor to B at frets 0, 12 and 24.

But you could do what Lloyd Green does and pick strings 2, 5 and 6 with no pedals or knee levers at the same frets.

The A pedal at the 7th and 19th frets gives a G# minor, strings 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 10.

A and B engaged at the 2nd, 14th frets, you have the G# minor if string 1 or 7 is picked in triads with strings 3, 5, 6 and 10 (excluding any octaves).

Remember that in any "6th" tuning you automatically have the relative minor (G# is the relative minor to a B chord), IF you include the 6th tone with the root and 3rd tones of a given major chord. Thus the previous paragraph.

The same holds true IF you engage the A pedal. You have the relative minor at any fret, IF you pick the raised 5th or 10th string and the root and 3rd tones.

Ex: B chord, 7th fret, A pedal engaged, pick strings 3, 4 and 5; or 4, 5 and 6; or 5, 6 and 8; or 6, 8 and 10. OR, you can go wide and pick strings 3, 5 and 8; or 4, 6 and 10. In all cases you have played a G# minor which is the relative minor to a B chord (with the A pedal engaged).

Once you know this, you can do it for ANY relative minor to a major chord in any pedal/knee lever engagement where you KNOW what the major chord is.

Note: Key of C; C d E f g A b C or 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. You do not have to know music to find a lot of things out (and WHERE they are) on a steel guitar. IF you FIRST find it at the C fret (where ever that fret is), and then copy the "grip" at any other chord's fret using the SAME pedal(s) and/or SAME knee lever(s) AND same string grips.

So, in the "note" above, the relative minor of C is A C E in ANY combination. Simply count 1 3 6; or DO re ME fa sol LA ti DO.

Then pick ONLY the notes that are highlighted above. Those tones ARE the relative minor.

So using this, suppose you wanted to find the relative minor to an F# chord. Go to your C chord fret, how EVER you make it. Sound out the 1st, 3rd and 6th tones of the Chord using "Do Me La". Note what strings, what pedal(s)and what knee lever(s) you used.

Then duplicate these at the corresponding F# chord frets.

Try it, you will soon get used to it; and you will like it I promise.

May Jesus help you with this, and much of the mystery will soon go, and that will only embellish your playing.

carl

*Some call the lever that lowers the E's to Eb the "D" lever, while others call it the "E" lever. This problem began early on and has been a source of confusion ever since.

To me, it has always made more since as the E lever, but then who am I Confused

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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

One I use, to play Apache in C minor, is at the 1st fret, no pedals, strings 10,9,7,5. Apache lays out pretty nice using this position, no pedals needed...Jerry

Kyle Everson · From: Nashville, Tennessee

Chuck Thompson · From: Illinois, USA

also fret 6 - b pedal- raise the e's - strings 9-8-6 -- lower the 2nd string 1/2 strings 4-3-2

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

If you can play the whole chromatic scale on open strings, then you can play all 12 minor triads on open strings. That means you can play a G# minor triad at any fret.
If you can play most of the chromatic scale on open strings, then you can play G# minor triad at most of the frets.
If you haven't done it yet, it can be instructive to take a few minutes to find every possible way to play each of 12 major and 12 minor triads on open strings. Think about the pitches available on each open string with its pulls. Can a note of the triad be played on that open string?

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

As I ponder many of the awesomely informative posts in this thread, I am reminded of something that has not been mentioned. And I believe it makes us remiss when it comes to the more inexperienced player.

And that is: Because of the way most PSG players tune; NOT all triad combinations will be in tune; in all theoretical places that a given triad can be created; using pedals and knee levers; and given string grips; on a pedal steel guitar.

The younger player needs to know this. I do not want to start a JI versus ET versus MT, etc, thread in this thread.

But I feel it suffice to say that even incredibly gifted steel players like Paul Franklin said on this forum once, "There are some string combinations we simply avoid". Or words to that affect. In other words, due to the way most of us tune, there ARE combinations of given triads that are out of tune. And some of them are horridly out of tune.

There are many examples, but here is just one of them:

IF you do not use "compensators" and you tune straight JI, there is NO way a D chord is going to sound right at the open fret (with pedal B engaged) IF you tune 1 and 7 to the B notes. IF you tune 1 and 7 to the C#'s (with pedal A engaged) there is NO way a B6th chord is going to sound in tune with the E's lowered to Eb. NO way.

Of course IF one tunes their PSG's as a piano is tuned (ET), then EVERY combination would be in tune as a piano is, if'n ya kin stand da beats! Confused

I seem to recall b0b once saying years ago that if you tune straight ET, every chord will be slightly out of tune, but all chords will be the same amount out of tune. Or similar words. And I agree totally.

If one tunes MT, then you have a compromise between harmonically pure (JI) and the exponentially equal spaced notes like (ET).

So my considered advice to you "up and coming" PSG players, read all the above posts with great interest, and do try them. but keep in mind it is NOT you if you play some of the combinations and they sound way out of tune, but other chord positions sound perfect to your ears.

I base this on the fact that I imagine most of you would be tuning to a harmonically pure form of tuning called Just Intonation, or JI.

My experience is that most new students of the PSG tune JI but after many years some of them migrate towards ET. 'Cept me. I been JI for 60 yrs and I will die JI Very Happy

Cuz "ah CAINT stand dem beats!" NOT even a half of one of 'em! NOT even a quarter of one of 'em. Oh well.

Now what did I do with my flame retarder? Whoa!

carl
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Jim Robbins · From: Ontario, Canada

There's also one at one fret up from open, knee lever your E's to D# and B to Bb. So for G# minor, fifth fret, strings 8 (root)7 (3rd)5 (5th) 4 (root) 2 (root) 1 (3rd). Strings 6 and 3 are your 4th for a sus / minor pentatonic/ minor 11th sound.

You'd better check the tuning of the knee levers against each other, though, or else Mr. Dixon will be after you. (Even if you are relatively beat tolerant like me, this one can sound pretty bad if you don't tune the levers together. Squishing around with the bar can help.)

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

If you tune meantone like Earnest, there is only one note that's way out of tune, and it's only out for half of the chords that use it. Since the E9th meantone centers on the F#, that note is C (vs. B#).

Now, there are two ways to get an open B# or C note on E9th: half-pedal and pedal/knee split. I can imagine tuning the pedal/knee split to the flatter side (B#, in tune with G# and D#), and using the half-pedal method for those occasions when you need the sharper C (in tune with E and G). Earnest can chime in about what he actually does to accommodate the "wolf tone".

I know this seems to be a bit off topic, but the idea of knowing how to play every chord at every fret has merit. You can do it in equal temperament or you can do it in meantone. In JI, as Carl said, it's not really possible because there are a few intervals that you simply must avoid.

Lest you think I'm going off the deep end... We all tend to identify certain frets with certain keys. Here's a summary of the most common minor chord positions for Am and (per the original request) G#m:

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