Missing 'C' Pedal

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 1 Jun 2008 12:00 pm

More and more I'm seeing steel players with the 'C' pedal removed or disconnected. What's up with that?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Jun 2008 12:22 pm

Stupidity, mostly.

Okay, okay. That's a little strong and condescending.

How 'bout "ignorant"?

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 1 Jun 2008 12:33 pm

I have no C pedal, and feel neither stupid nor ignorant.

A raise on P2, C# raise on P3, more like Day style, with a half-Franklin on P1.

For what I do, I thought the combination was redundant. I have the E->F# raise on LKR (with a feel stop at F), same motion as P3, for the C pedal change.
The value added, for me, is a V chord with P1 and LKL. Plus a 6th string G lower, a aplit with P2.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 1 Jun 2008 12:37 pm

Guess some people just want to add a little "AB" pedal fills to their band and aren't hardcore country players. I've seen lots of great pickers with different tunings and pedal setups and many never touched the "C" pedal or its equivalent all night long.

Here's a whole page of "C" pedal riffs, the 1st 30 I could think of, and the list goes far beyond what I've played there.

E9th Pedal C Riffs

Greg

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 1 Jun 2008 1:18 pm

All I can say is that I use the B-C pedal combination all the time for harmony scales, and would be seriously handicapped if the C pedal was missing.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 1 Jun 2008 2:02 pm

I did away with that pedal for a while, and had the E>F# pull on my left knee vertical. While it was nice for some things, I found I just couldn't play a lot of riffs that require quick pedaling of the "B" and "C" pedals together.

Chet Wilcox · Post by **Chet Wilcox** » 1 Jun 2008 3:24 pm

greg, Those are very nice examples of what the c pedal can do. Thank You for posting them, ChetWilcox

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 1 Jun 2008 3:48 pm

Thanks Greg.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Jun 2008 3:58 pm

Charlie McDonald wrote:I have no C pedal, and feel neither stupid nor ignorant. For what I do, I thought the combination was redundant.

Of course Charlie, I was being a little tongue-in-cheek, and hope you didn't take my remarks too seriously!

Nevertheless, I do think it's a valuable (useful) pedal for the vast majority of steelers, and what they play. Some, like yourself, may not like it, and that's fine. I just don't want too many newbies thinking they're "wasting a pedal" by having it in their setup.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 1 Jun 2008 4:09 pm

Stupid and ignorant line up over here behind me. I've never had a C pedal. I raise the E on a knee lever. With that and A&B down, why do I need it?
Plus, I can raise the E and G# strings without moving the B string. You guys do that!

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 1 Jun 2008 5:36 pm

Visit Greg Cutshaw's website for some great examples. of the BC pedal use in addtion to a fleet of other tabs & MP3s of how they should sound. This guy is one of a few "Mother Theresa's of pedal steel" on The Forum.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Paul Franklin pepper his work with the BC? There are some great uses if you play Rock and Roll. For newbies, at least take a few good looks at this combo. steve t

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 1 Jun 2008 6:22 pm

No C pedal? That's like going into battle with only one bullet.

I'm with Donny here!
A picker could play for years and never understand how and where to use the C and BC combination. That just means you need some instruction and/or inspiration.
Another question.
Why do some steel owners remove everything from pedals, to complete linkages and necks from perfectly good guitars?
Big E and the other pioneers did all the heavy work coming up with the most possiblities and combinations of strings and tunings. Why would anyone think they know better?
I'll put on the nomex suit now.

BTW..nice stuff Greg

Bill Dobkins · Post by **Bill Dobkins** » 1 Jun 2008 6:45 pm

I raise my 4th with with my RRL instead of the C pedal. You can use it with the AB pedal or open or the A or B or the F lever.I can't figure out any way to do this with the C pedal. Maybe someone could tell me. Also I raise my 5th with a V lever and on my other V lever I lower my 4th. I have 6 levers. I know this isn't conventional but it works for me for now. Maybe as I get better I will realize the conventional way is better. For now my C pedal is just there for looks.
I talked to a very famous steeler about my set up,he said if it works for you do it. There was a time that levers were,nt very conventional. I think trying new things and finding different copedents will help keep this awesome istrument alive

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 1 Jun 2008 7:01 pm

Charlie M,

Would it be possible for you to post some sound clips of a few examples on how you work around not using a C pedal?

One particular passage that comes to mind would be the John Hughey lick in Fifteen Years Ago using the BC combo on strings 345 then 456.

I think you know what lick I'm refering to as he's very well known for it.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 1 Jun 2008 8:12 pm

I played some Hendrix inspired licks using the C pedal and the 1st string together in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkSnoeTWR4I

Chris Johnson · Post by **Chris Johnson** » 1 Jun 2008 8:30 pm

Most Sacred Steel setups keep pedals A & B in the standard emmons configuration but use the C pedal in able to get Dom. 7th chords etc (usually by lowering the 1's to a b7). The B&C pedals in combination gives you a V chord which goes well with the IV chord that A&B gives you. Just a different twist of the standard C=Country pedal converted for blues & rock.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 1 Jun 2008 9:47 pm

fwiw, Jerry Garcia used the C-Pedal alot.

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 2 Jun 2008 4:29 am

I remember a great local steel guitarist, Joe Black from Central City Pa [now deceased], he was one of the best I have ever heard, he never had a 'C' pedal and was an amazing player. I have to confess, I don't have one on my MSA Universal since I only had 7 pedals & wanted to use the C pedal for my BooWah pedal on the B6th side, I do raise my E to F# with a knee lever, find it works great for me, but thats just me. I have the C pedal on my '70 S-10 Marlen & don't have much trouble going back to the pedal on that guitar, but you must remember, I am a nutty steel player & like to be different!!

Color me Crazy

Ernie

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 2 Jun 2008 4:38 am

Certainly not, Donny; stupid would be posting my setup without having any challenges to it, and that's what the forum is for.

I bought the guitar from Mike P., who made me promise to play the Emmons setup for a year. I didn't make it. Day pedals is more natural for me, and with the standard E+ and E- switched, it left possibilities--and I couldn't see having three pedals without having the I, IV, and V chords with pedals only.
But I would have to in general defer to advice for beginners from more experienced players.

Dick, that would be a good idea. I've been working on a song (it's going painfully slow) that uses what I have.
Older players that don't come from country backgrounds, like me, might not know the difference in John Hughey and Buddy Emmons, sad to say.

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 2 Jun 2008 4:45 am

Ernie, did Joe Black have an E to F# change on his guitar at all? Did he play all styles of music? If you are aware, what other changes were present on his guitar that many of us might not have? Thanks, stevet

Joel Meredith · Post by **Joel Meredith** » 2 Jun 2008 8:39 am

I mostly play rock music and I use the C pedal all the time. I can't imagine removing something from a steel, just because you don't use it all that much because you never know when you may need it....

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 2 Jun 2008 8:58 am

Charlie McDonald wrote: I bought the guitar from Mike P., who made me promise to play the Emmons setup for a year. I didn't make it.

Charlie, I am shocked, SHOCKED that you didn't keep your promise and went to the Day tuning.

How could you do this to me?

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 2 Jun 2008 9:20 am

Tho I know a few C pedal licks, I am too scared to go for em in a 'live" situation...they are strictly used in the bedroom and even there...its rare..i have to think "I better run thru my c pedal licks so i dont loose em". The C pedal lies outside my comfort zone, so I NEVER go there when improvising. I actually have to look under the guitar when moving to that pedal to make sure i hit it. I dunno...its been 2.5 years now, and I still cant integrate that pedal into my playing. I will be taking a good long look at Mr. Cutshaws C pedal stuff, maybe it will be the spark I need.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 2 Jun 2008 10:24 am

add me to the stupid and ignorant list....i may be an idiot but have been happy to have e-f# on a knee lever only for over 30 years.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 2 Jun 2008 10:57 am

chris ivey wrote:I have e-f# on a knee lever

I HAD- past tense- a similar knee lever in addition to the C pedal, with the idea that I could raise the 4th string wile holding the A and B pedals down. After living with this change for a year or two, I decided I preferred to use the C pedal, in part to get those Hendrix inspired rock licks in the video I posted earlier, but mostly because I felt that the pedal worked better.

I eventually took the knee lever off.

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Missing 'C' Pedal

Missing 'C' Pedal

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