Law of Steel and Resonator Guitar on the same Stage?

Dale Bessant · From: Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada

Ok Gang,
Had an incident happen last Sunday at a Jam Session I attended....there was a pedal steel player in the house band, also there was a guest Reso-player on the stage at the same time, a friend of the front man...the house band started the jam with a few numbers...in the middle of the second or third song the pedal steel player stopped playing and got up turned his amp off and proceeded to leave the stage in anger...it later turned up that he was upset that the reso-player was sharing the same songs with him as he was asked why he left the stage and his reply was "You never have pedal steel and Dobro on at the same time"...
Both of these players had many years of experience...I asked the Reso-player later in the day about the incident and he replied to me that he was only going to fill in spots in their material when he was asked to by a "heads up" on stage notification...he felt bad about the anger that was thrust upon he and the rest of the band...
So the question is I guess..... what laws abide in a situation like that...what are your thoughts on what took place, any responses ? Oh Well

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Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

dont tell Roy Acuff about this law. didnt he have Shot Jackson and Brother Oswald up there together? maybe I got that wrong. Personally i dont like anything slidey up there sliding around at the same time as my slidey psg...but its nothing to throw a hissy fit over IMHO.

Dave Harmonson · From: Seattle, Wa

There's many songs with Reso and Pedal Steel. If players of any instruments know how to work together it can work. I don't understand the tantrum myself. Can't we all get along?

David Doggett · Posted 7 May 2008 10:17 am

Sure it can be done. It's a little tricky, but just requires a little communication and mutual respect. It works best if the two players get to know each other before the set starts. They need to be located next to each other on stage, to help them communicate in swapping leads.

About a year ago, I played two gigs with Lucky Oceans on 10-string lap steel and me on a uni pedal steel. We sat next to each other and had a ball. Naturally I let him take most of the leads. I played a lot of rhythm comps on the low strings, and laid out completely sometimes when he was doing leads and fills. But he returned the favor and gave me plenty of leads. The other band members helped by giving us both lots of space to play.

It all depends on the players. If they don't share, and play over each other, it will be a problem. It's not nice to spring a surprise on either the house band member or the guest artist. They should be introduced ahead of time and asked to work together.

Frankly, I'd rather share the stage with another steeler than a keyboard. Two steelers recognize the potential problem and work together to deal with it. But many keyboard players just hog everything all the way through every song.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

I have had problems with guitar players that play over my parts.

I bet the issue was bigger than what you saw. Probably getting treated poorly by the front man.

My rule is

"dont play fills or leads over other people parts,, period."

Some reso guys like to start wanking away nonstop. A lot of guys with blues backgrounds like to fill every inch of non-vocalized music with fills and bends.

Personally when I have a part,, and someone starts bending a note,,My stomach tightens and I start thinking of smashing guitars.

want to get a reso guy back? show up with a banjo!

Sarah Cahoon has a reso guy and a steel player,, they have their parts worked out as to who plays where,, and they work together beautifully. If your lucky your in a band that can communicate well, and that will never be a problem. I was in 2 in a row where the guitarist had ego issues and when on stage turned up loud and walked on all my parts. I quit both.

I agree with Dave about the keyboard,,another instrument that bores the players into over filling..

TEAMWORK PEOPLE,,lets get it together!! "claps hands and points"
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

What law abides? There are no "laws" about which instruments can or cannot play on a particular song - especially in a jam session. I see absolutely no reason a PSG and dobro can't play together. Encapsulating what the other Daves said, it requires basic musical discipline and respect for each other. Of course, not all musicians have this - but members of a "house band" should.

I can see a couple of "laws" here. First, if a guest player is invited up and the leader tosses him or her a solo, it is the house band's responsibility to support that without griping or stomping on it.

The other operant "law" here is that if a player has a puffed-up ego, someone will likely deflate it. This sounds more like a temper tantrum than anything else. Hey, people have them - if it's very rare, it's probably not a huge deal.

But if I was running a jam session like this, I'd read the offending house player his rights - "You have the right to play or lay out on a tune according to dictates of good taste - no problem. But if you're in the house band, you will be respectful to the guest singers and players that we invite to play with us." Exclamation

My opinions, of course.

Bo Legg · Posted 7 May 2008 12:14 pm

Since when does a PSG picker need an excuse to throw a hissy fit? That was one of the reasons I wanted to play PSG so I could be an argent pric.

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

So the steel guy copped an attitude at a JAM SESSION??? Man, I've seen bluegrass jams with twelve guitar players. No need acting like a GIRL, or something Mad

...

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

In the words of the Bard:
"Methinks he doth protest too much"

Or in this case, probably just too much ego on that particular bandstand.

I've heard a million 'rules' about steel and other instruments (e.g. you can't have B3 and steel on the same track). None of them make sense to me. Music is music. If musicians are communicating clearly, there's no limitation based on which instrument you are playing.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Yeah, sounds like the steel man was intimdated by the ol' houn' dawg!

Seriously, many records were made with both instruments, so there is no unwritten "law". Shot and Buddy even did a whole album of steel and dobro called "Two Aces, Back to Back"! As mentioned, Roy Hiccup had 'em both, so did Stan Hitchcock, so did Jim & Jesse, so did Lee Clayton, so did Loretta Lynn, so did Rex Allen Jr., so did etc., etc.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Lyle Lovett sometimes has both in his really big band, I believe.

Tim Hurst · From: Newport, TN

I saw one of Crook and Chase's show on RFD a few weeks ago. Don't remember who was singing but Tommy White was playing steel and Wanda was on dobro. Sounded pretty good to me.

Charley Wilder · From: Dover, New Hampshire, USA

I totally agree with Dave Mudgett! Also the key words here in my estimation are "jam session". The only rule in a jam is common courtesy!

Cass Broadview · Posted 7 May 2008 3:52 pm

When Lead Players take the ride on "Together Again" it just gets my ire. And you can tell by the way "most" lead players play Together Again, that half of them have never actually heard the song. Just another 3 chord country tune to them. But sure steel and dobro can work together. I've heard this myself. Bobby Caldwell, could show most guitar players and musicians out there, how to play with another lead instrument. Hes the master at doing this. Bobby actually makes steel players sound their best. Ask anyone whos played with Mr Caldwell. Yes i am as much a Bobby Caldwell fan, as i am a Buddy Emmons fan.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

so....the dobro picker put the steel player in his place?? sounds like the steel picker copped an inferiority jam session complex...i've seen this when two or more steels show up at a jam...i'd gladly share with and encourage others to play along...sharing space...having fun...learning from each other, but some egos can't handle this...it's their loss...and a shame!

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

I play Dobro every Friday night on an opry show that Jerry Newberry plays steel on. We do fine together.
Jerry

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

Want some cheese with that wiiiiine?????
JE:-)>

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

This is funny stuff!I try not to bend notes on my guitar when I'm playing with a steel player but something takes over my hand and I just can't control myself,And then we start bending notes together and smiling,and having a LARGE time...Only when I play with Dan Tyack.Some of you others need to loosen up.
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Dave Harmonson · From: Seattle, Wa

I had the pleasure of pickin' with Dan Tyack a couple of months ago. I never got mad, and as far as I could tell he didn't either. Neither one of us stormed off.
By the way, Dan, you're more than welcome anytime you're in town and get the urge.
Dave

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

If any two players decide to play a lead solo at the same time in the same register it's not going to work most of the time, no matter what instruments. You don't have the fiddler, reso player, steel player, harmonica player, etc., all jumping in at the same time as soon as the singer finishes a verse. They need to agree to take turns. Rolling Eyes

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

Mike Auldridge and Jeff Newman recorded a fine album several years ago featuring steel and Dobro together. (Guess they didn't get the memo.)

Mark Eaton · Posted 7 May 2008 8:11 pm

...as did Ralph Mooney and James Burton, in 1969. "Corn Pickin' And Slick Slidin'"

Several of the tracks feature James and Moon on on dobro and steel, respectively.

The next Jerry Douglas CD, due out in July, apparently will have at least one track with Jerry on dobro and Lloyd Green on steel.

Dale, you have every right to start a thread on the subject - but to me this is a non-issue, and the pedal steeler that was upset at the jam definitely HAS issues.
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Mark

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

This has nothing to do with recording. It has to do with a guy that was called in as a guest jam reso player. The responsibility is on HIM to make sure that he is not getting in anyone's way. He can get people real upset otherwise. There's nothing worse than some guy coming in and stepping all over your parts. I find that steel and reso only work if either the parts or the solos are pre arranged as stated above. In jams you take your chances, which is why they are a waste of time to me.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

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