The Steel Guitar Forum

Every Time I See a New Steel . It sounds like a PP. So I Got Me a pp Still Waiting Too Hear one That Sounds Better. Most Of us Try The Economy Brands And always Come home Too Emmons. Just My Thought. Whats Yours?

Dont know ? Does a ProMat sound like a push pull ? Its a PUSH PULL aint it ?

Tommy With My Ears They Sound Similar. But Not Exactly.I Like The MSA Old and New Sound Mullen Sounds Great . Would Like Too Try G2 Mullen. Derbys sound Great Fessenden And The Caters I Had Sounded Great. But I Miss The Emmons When I Dont Have One.The Zums Are The Best Playing Guitar I Have Had. thanks Randy.

Ummm, maybe it would be better to get a 80's Emmons SKH, if you can find one, eh? TX

Rgds,

Ron

A PP sound is the holy grail. Put one side by side with another make and compare for tone.

I have had a few guys in this country tell me that their ~~~~~~~~~~ make of guitar sounds just like a push pull. Sorry but they either have cloth in their ears or they have not had the opportunity to A/B their guitars with a PP. That Emmons PP 'zing' is unmistakable.

That's not to say everything else is bad sounding - I love the sound of some other makes. They are just different.

Ken Byng wrote:A PP sound is the holy grail. Put one side by side with another make and compare for tone.

I have had a few guys in this country tell me that their ~~~~~~~~~~ make of guitar sounds just like a push pull. Sorry but they either have cloth in their ears or they have not had the opportunity to A/B their guitars with a PP. That Emmons PP 'zing' is unmistakable.

That's not to say everything else is bad sounding - I love the sound of some other makes. They are just different.

I agree !!!!!!!

My Franklin does not sound like my old 71 PP Emmons, it sounds like a Franklin.

The only guitar that "sounds like a PP Emmons" is a PP Emmons.

I know this guy named Buddy Emmons and he sounds like an Emmons no matter what he is playing.... !!!

Good one Jack!

That's funny; I sat down to a '64 push-pull Emmons and it sounded like a Sho~bud to me.
Ricky

Ricky - up until recently I had 3 ShoBuds. a D12 Pro2, a D10 Pro 111, and a late model LDG that I sold on a few months back. They all sound like ShoBuds thank God, but never in a million years could I even begin to say that any Emmons push pull that I've tried sounded like a ShoBud (or visa versa). Both makes have distinctively different sonic tone (timbre) to my ears - acoustically and through an amp.

I didn't like the PP sound when I first played one in 1972. I was a ZB man back then, and then on to ShoBud in 1975. The push pull sounded overly clean and bright to me then, and I found it a little un-nerving compared to my ZB's and ShoBuds.

I recent years I have played a number of push pull's, most of which I have to say have a unique sound unlike any other pedal steel guitar. I have now grown to love the sound, and with luck I will get one this year to add to my stable of ShoBuds. If they sounded the same as my 'Buds I wouldn't bother - there would be absolutely no point.

Ron I Got a Black SKH They Dont Sound to Shabby Either. I Would Like To Hear a G 2 Anyone Care To Comment ? I Have a Lamar Comeing With Woodnecks And laquer Cant Wait To Hear That One. Thanks For all The Comments. Lots Of Great Quality Steels Being Built. My Short List Ia a G2 And A Rittenberry Lots Of Positive Comments On Those. Randy

Ken I agree to a point.
I can certainly tell a diff. between a Sho~bud and a push-pull Emmons.
I guess I should say that I sat down to a '64 wraparound; and I made it sound like me playing a Sho~bud.
Ricky

Randy, You just like those big 'ol John Deere tractor pedals on those old push pulls . Reminds you of the old days back on the farm don't it? LOL

Any of the new guitars sound great but I am also envious of the "old geetar" players, especially the ZB and Sho-Bud pickers
That said... Black Emmons push/pulls sound the best! LOL
Your buddy,
Danny

You are so right about the Emmon p/p. What a great sound , what a great steel guitar. I bought this one in 1973 from Emmons, practiced in my house while I played lead guitar until 1980, been playing this Emmon since 1980 and it still plays like it did in the 70's. Wouldn't give it up and anything.

I kind of like em', got 3 of em'!
75' D-10 - 8/4 Wood/Wood
71' SD-12 - 3/4 - Ext E9th - Black Mica
79' S-10 - 3/4 - Rosewood Mica
JE:-)>

I have rooms full of the finest steel guitars ever built, there is nothing that sounds like the Emmons P-P, even my employees can tell the difference from rooms away. Ken Byng, you know, you were here, as many of you have been.
This unique tone is prefered by most all that hear it, but then we do run across the occational cardboard ear.
Anyone may come by and take the Emmons P-P test. You won't even have to study for it, the answers are obvious.

BobbeSeymour wrote:I have rooms full of the finest steel guitars ever built, there is nothing that sounds like the Emmons P-P...This unique tone is prefered by most all that hear it, but then we do run across the occational cardboard ear.

Bobbe, next time you see "Mr. Cardboard", tell him I said "Hi".

Buddy Emmons
Member
From: Hermitage, TN USA
posted 10 September 2003 01:31 PM profile edit
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I think the Sierra ranks at the top of the list for C6th tone. Also, I recorded several Clinton Gregory sessions including the song, "If It Weren't for Country Music," and the bite on the intro was as Nashville inclined as you'd ever want to hear. If I hadn't had a problem breaking the G# on my guitar I might have kept it. I presently own a Sierra single 12 devoted to the C6th tuning only and the tone is superb.

Or is it Lloyd that's "Mr. Cardboard"?

Anyhow, I'm sure they both appreciate your thoughts!

Danny That is Right It Makes Me Think of The Allis Chalmers With The crank in front With Those Pedals. Could Not afford a John Deere. Bobbe No wonder we Cant find any PPs You Got Em all. Your Pal Randy,

"Do they really sound like a pp emmons?"
In my opinion, yes. It depends on who's playing it. This is judging by steel shows and recordings. I've never listened as a highly accomplished picker compared a p/p with an all- pull.When Mr. John Hughey passed away, he was playing a Zum. Buddy Emmons play's a Zum. Lloyd Green play's a Sho-Bud. Paul Franklin play's a Franklin. Mike Johnson play's an Emmons p/p. I think Tommy White play's a MSA. All of these pickers use different equiptment. They each play with different styles. But they all have something in common. They all have a gift for musical talent, they all have practiced alot, they all have GREAT tone, and they all know how to handle a steel guitar. If a beginner spends X amount of dollars on an Emmons p/p thinking that it will instantly give him good tone, he's wasted his money. Some pickers sound good on any steel guitar. And some sound bad on every steel that they play. Musical talent, good ears, alot of practice, and time will give the best chances for good tone. Not an Emmons P/P.
Mitch

The original point was that of some players claiming that their non-Emmons guitars sound like push-pulls. It was not whether the PP is the best, or Sierra, or ShoBud. I think that the push pull has the most distinctive tone of all pedal steels, and so do many others. As far as distinctive tones go, it is not alone in having a signature tone - Emmons, ShoBud, ZB, Sierra, Bigsby and early MSA's all have their own sound, however subtle this might be.

However, I do struggle to tell the difference between many of the modern pedal steels, most of which sound good but have a generic modern tone. This is not surprising since the designs now are very similar (Jackson apart). Mark Giles manufactures bodies for several current makers, and in the main, pickups are provided by third party manufacturers.

This is a great thread, and we all have our own opinions on tone, but it's so very subjective.

Bobbe S. Yes I did hear 2 of your push pull's in close proximity. I don't say this lightly as I have been involved with pedal steels for many years, selling and playing. The blue push pull in your shop is the finest sounding guitar that I have ever heard - period.

Mitch Ellis - I agree with some of your comments. However, the reason why some players play a certain model is not always down to whether they think it is the best sounding guitar. You mention Tommy White - the world's best player in my view - he seems to change guitar fairly regularly. They all sound great when he plays them, but none of them have the sublime tone that he gets with the black push pull on his E9 instructional DVD.

One word.

G2

WE have mastered the tone, mechanics, looks, and all. I am willing to prove it to anyone.

Mike Mickey Adams Sure Likes his . When The Used Ones Start Popping Up I Will Try One. I Like The sound of the Mullen.

"Tone" is very subjective and what one person considers "great tone" or "the ultimate" tone, someone else may (and many do) have a totally different thought on it.

If everyone thought the same make/model was the "best" everyone (or practically everyone) would be playing that make/model. If the Emmons PP REALLY is as desireable as many think, why isn't it still a standard production model?

Randy you better just start saving. I don't think anyone will part with them.