The Steel Guitar Forum

I have two Emmons and by comparing the pedal press
one is much more difficult, all of them evenly. What springs are responsible for the sum of the the press resistance? Even Removing the spring at the end of the pedal Rods does'nt help. Has anyone exchanged his springs to lighter ones?
Thnx for help

The 1st thing I would try is some lubrication on the various pivot points, including the changer fingers.

As far as removing the springs on the ends of the rods. If you are talking about the ones next to the bell cranks: PUT THEM BACK ON !!!!

Erv Niehaus wrote:The 1st thing I would try is some lubrication on the various pivot points, including the changer fingers.!

If that dosen't do the trick. Compare the leverage points at the changer. The farther the wire hook is placed from the changer axle, the easier (yet longer) the pedal/lever throw will be. I prefer a longer easier throw compared to a stiffer short excursion.

Also I've removed a lot of the compression springs. The guitar is a bit more "clack-ety" but no extra energy is wasted compressing springs. (I'm probably in the minority regarding this aspect of push-pulls.)

Like everything in physics......it's a trade off. Personal preferences vary.

Sigi, If both guitars are the same model and all the rods are in the same holes, they should play real close. If not, alot of other things, such as string gage and proper lubrication could have an effect on the pressure feel. And just a personal preference of mine is to take the springs off that you said you took off. That is if you a talking about the ones that hold the pedals up when you are changing strings. I can see no other use for those springs and they make the pedals harder to push. My Rains came with no springs and I took them off my P/P and have taken them off every other Emmons I've had and had no issues. Again, just my personal preference.

Henry, I agree with you, these springs on the end of the pedal rods are not extrem nececary or are they? Erv said PUR THEM BACK ON!

Sigi,
Yes, you need those springs.
With the p/p mechanism, The changer fingers press solidly against the body via the tuning screws.
You have to have some way of cushioning that and that is the reason for the springs.
Especially when you have more that one pull or push on the same pedal or lever.
If you eliminate the springs, it will be very difficult to get the guitar in tune.

I got rid of those springs, they made for a very 'spongy' feel.

I used some half-tone tuners to simplify setting up the raises.

I know this thread is a little old by now but been out of pocket and just wanted to throw in that I think some of us are talking about different springs. I was refering to the springs that actually hold the pedals up if your strings are off the guitar. I can see no use for these springs other than to hold the pedal up. Neither one of my pushpulls have them and stay in tune perfectly. I have also taken them off every Emmons, all pull and P/P I've ever had and as I said, The Rains don't even come with them. Maybe Bobbe or some of you P/P experts can shed some light on these useless (IMHO)little springs. I'm really curious about them and their purpose other than making the pedals hard to push.

Those pedal return springs are there to stop the pedal rod unhooking on strings which both raise and lower (eg pedal C)

If you accidentally get your foot under the C pedal, it can unhook the rod.

I found that out the hard way

However, I took those springs off as well, and devised another method to hook the pedal rods on with no risk of them coming off accidentally.

Richard, I did have that happen to me but finally got my guitar adjusted to where that won't happen again.---Henry

I believe Richard is right. Those springs over on the side that hold the pedals up are there to keep the pedal rods from falling out. To me they seem to be too weak to have much effect on the stiffness of the pedals. But they create empty play in the pedals that I don't care for. I tried taking them off, but kept having pedal rods fall off in the middle of performances.

If you suspect lack of lubrication in the changer and other moving parts is the problem, check the stiffness the next time you change strings. If things are still stiff with no strings, then you need to dissassemble, clean and lubricate.

But the most common causes for pedal stiffness on push/pulls are probably the holes used in the changer fingers (further from the changer axle gives a longer, easier action). It is also possible to use shorter bell cranks that provide longer, easier pulls and pushes.

the springs have nothing to do
with spongy pedals
the pedal stops have to be adjusted
precise with the fingers pulling up
to the wood of the guitar
if one finger stops before the other
thats what causes pedals to be hard and spongy
adjust precise and p/p.s play great

Buddy, you are right about the springs causing spongy pedals but they do make them a little harder to press. When a P/P is adjusted like you mentioned, you'll hear a distictive little clack and they do play great. I don't have any problem now with the rods coming off. My P/P has solid rods all the way to the changer with no paper clip things and plays like a dream, always stays in tune and pedals are easier and more positve than most all pulls. Some like the idea and some don't but I personally like the solid rods my self.

Buddy Castleberry wrote:the springs have nothing to do
with spongy pedals
the pedal stops have to be adjusted
precise with the fingers pulling up
to the wood of the guitar
if one finger stops before the other
thats what causes pedals to be hard and spongy
adjust precise and p/p.s play great

100% Correct.......also adjust your pedal or knee lever "stop" to bottom-out either just as or a hair after the changer fingers reach the end of their excursion. This will help give the pedal or knee lever a hard and precise feeling end-point.